Nintendo lies: DS will only outsell PSP by a 2:1 margin!

by Andrew Yoon { Oct 19th 2006 at 5:30PM }

Nintendo boldly claimed that the DS was outselling the PSP by a 3:1 margin. Ha! We proved them wrong! They're only going to outsell the system by a 2:1 margin! At least, according to Sony's and Nintendo's projected sales figures. Sony recently lowered its shipment target 25 percent, from 12 million to 9 million. Nintendo, on the other hand, raised its shipment target from 17 million to 20 million.

Due to battery explosions, and sluggish games sales, Sony expects a 62 percent drop in profits.

[Via Joystiq]

Tags: ds, figures, forecast, nintendo, psp, sales, sony

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

PimpitySnicket @ Oct 19th 2006 6:41PM

That's the lamest, sadest post you guys could've have made this stupid issue into.

Tyler @ Oct 19th 2006 7:29PM

OH LAWD lets make our title "NINTENDO LIED! EVEN THO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT CAUSE WE R ANTI NINTENDOZ"

and we knew about the 9 million to 20 million deal for a lonnnnnnnnng time. some people dont know how to compare figures ;3

pixelator @ Oct 19th 2006 7:34PM

I have to agree, this almost seems like a parody written by a Nintendo fanboy of kneejerk defensive PSP fanboys...

ninja @ Oct 19th 2006 8:05PM

Nice picture...

Michael Anderson @ Oct 19th 2006 8:16PM

And this is why the site is called PSP *FANBOY* :(

Andrew Yoon @ Oct 19th 2006 9:45PM

Hey guys, I was just having a little fun. I made note earlier (I even linked to that post!) that I hated sales numbers, so instead of doing the same ol' over again, I decided to joke around a bit.

Turken @ Oct 19th 2006 10:04PM

Here's another headline for you: "PSP Fanboy Lies about Nintendo Lying about sales figures."

1) Learn the difference between present and future. The Nintendo exec quoted in the first link was stating that the DS IS CURRENTLY outselling the PSP by 3:1 margin. Granted, that figure is for his region (Europe) and in the US, the margin is only 2.6 to 1 (NPD figures for september). Of course, in Japan the DS is outselling the PSP by 6:1 margin. So, the first thing that needs to be done is to find an accurate worldwide figure for sales. And remeber, these are CURRENT, ACTUAL SALES numbers. Which bring up point number two...

2) Learn the difference between SHIPPED and SOLD. Sony and Microsoft like to report numbers of units SHIPPED. Why? Because shipped numbers can include stock that doesn't sell and/or gets returned from the retail stores. Units that get returned can be shipped again and counted twice. Nintendo tends to be honest and report their number of units SOLD. That is, the number of units that actually go to consumers. Now, go back and look at the original linked article. Sony is claiming a projection of 9 million units SHIPPED. Nintendo is claiming 20 million units will be SOLD. Assuming that every PSP shipped get sold, the ratio is 2.2 to 1. (Almost close enough that you can round it off and get away with a 2:1 claim). In reality, something like 85% get sold, 5% get returned, and 10% sit on a shelf gathering dust. Numbers are entirely out my rear, but I'm estimating conservatively. In which case, the real number of units sold is closer to 7.5 million. That means the true ratio of predicted sales is 2.6 to 1. Which, interestingly enough, is right where the current actual sales numbers are. And, in case you missed it in fourth grade math class, the number 2.6 gets rounded off to 3, not 2. Hence nintedo has, and will have a 3:1 sales margin.

Now, putting the brief economics and math lesson aside for a moment... I have to say that it's rather funny how you're quick to point out the "lies" from nintendo, and completely gloss over the fact that the DS is still outselling the PSP by a significant margin, no matter HOW you calculate it.

I know that ya'll are PSP fanboys here, but being a fanboy is still no excuse for lack of common sense. Next time, try reading the articles you link to before spewing out a kneejerk response.

Signed,
A COMMON SENSE Fanboy.

stirlo @ Oct 19th 2006 11:15PM

lol... I think this site should be renamed Anti-pspfanboy.... or pspsucks.com...

or maybe just bannenate all the nintendo zealots?

it seems any story at all is filled with anti sony, anti psp and pro DS comments..

Ladsaber @ Oct 20th 2006 1:14AM

Stirlo is right,anything against "nintendo is god" argument is wrong thanks to the fantards,and why are they here anyway?
Is pathetic,your handheld sucks so you frame the one that you want but you dont want to pay?,is only 200$ losers

By the way who was the moron that actually believed that Ds outselled by 3:1 ?.

It seems NOT ONLY NINTENDO LIED,but know we know BRAIN AGE DOES NOT WORK.

PSPFANBOY,Do your job.Dont lisent these morons,they have a ds anyway,thats enought punishment.
130$ wasted in the garbage for a crappy Nintendo handheld that only plays 3 games according to the sells.Thats Sad.

Ladsaber @ Oct 20th 2006 1:27AM

Turken has to be the biggest douche in the world,really a "common sense" fanboy.that killed me,i was laffing so hard i think i was going to choke.

Alien @ Oct 20th 2006 6:05AM

OK , who is te idiot who stated that Nintendo counts only the solled units and that Sony counts the shiped unis , If you really want to know , I may now 1 or 2 peope at Sony shops , and they have to make an overall sellin , shipped , broken list . So shut up . Also the 9 million units is stated from now untill march , while the DS sellings are from January to december , so wake up . The DS will probably outsell the PSP untill the end of the year with 32-28 million units SOLED . If only the Dreamkast would soled 9 million units more ... Than it would have probably survived .

Turken @ Oct 20th 2006 11:48AM

Wow. Ladsaber, Alien - you guys are almost too cute in the way that you blunder about in ignorance. I'm not saying that you shold throw away your PSP's and turn into Nintendo zealots. All I'm asking is that you simply read the linked articles in a story before posting uninformed comments. Let's address a few of your concerns shall we? Starting with Ladsaber's questions/comments...

Q: who was the moron that actually believed that Ds outselled by 3:1 ?.
A: Well, that would be several "morons:" The sales figures from Europe come from Nintendo product manager James Honeywell [first link in this article], The US sales figures come from NPD [via link at Joystiq], and the Japan sales numbers come from MediaCreate [link also via Joystiq]. What do all three of these sources have in common? They are people who WORK in the games and/or media industry, whose job is to track accurate sales numbers. And only one of those sources can be accused of being biased in any way.

COMMENT: It seems NOT ONLY NINTENDO LIED,but know we know BRAIN AGE DOES NOT WORK.
REPLY: Again, you present no evidence as to how nintendo lied about SALES NUMBERS. And the question of Brain Age's efficacy was never an issue in this blog post. Please try to stay on the topic at hand. Thanks.

COMMENT: PSPFANBOY,Do your job
REPLY: In case you didn't realize it, the job of PSPFANBOY is to report PSP news that might not make it into the general gaming blogs such as Joystiq. That's why I am here. I love gaming. On all platforms. I come to PSP fanboy to find out about games that are coming out, or cool hardware mods, or what the latest sony firmware update breaks. I come here because I hope that at some point, there will be enough selling points that I can justify spending the money on another game console. So far, it has not happened, but that doesn't mean I won't buy a PSP in the future. However, PSPFANBOY's job is NOT to post stories that are blatently false and ignorant just so that the PSP trolls can have themselves a congratulatory circle jerk. I don't mind a website spinning news to put it in a positive light but I do not tolerate a news source falsifying facts to support personal opinions.

COMMENT:
REPLY: Sorry. not worth my time to get in a namecalling flamewar. You can laugh at me all you want but I don't care, because the rest of the world is laughing even harder at you.

And now for Alien's questions...

Q: who is te idiot who stated that Nintendo counts only the solled units and that Sony counts the shiped unis , If you really want to know , I may now 1 or 2 peope at Sony shops , and they have to make an overall sellin , shipped , broken list
A: First, please try using a grammar/spellchecker. That paragraph really hurts to look at. Anyway... "Shipped vs. Sold" is an argument that will continue to rage across the blogosphere for quite some time. To be honest, I can't find a definitive link that says how many PSP were units were sold or returned vs. the number shipped. So, instead, I will rely on the testimony of your alleged "Sony Shop friends." According to these nameless people that you trust, there is definitely SOME number of PSP units that get broken and/or returned back to sony. So we both agree that there IS a difference between units shipped and units actually sold, and that Sony also keeps track of shipped vs. sold. Now then, let's look back at the article [second link in the blog post above] to see what it says... Well, whaddayaknow! Sony is reporting units they expect to SHIP, and Nintendo is reporting units they expect to SELL! Also, notice that the article is written by Reuters -- a newswire. In case you don't know, newswires such as Reuters are where almost all of the other news sources like newspapers and blogs actually get their news from to begin with. The folks writing for Reuters realize the difference between shipped and sold, which is why they use the two different words in their article. So... what "idiots" say that Nintendo reports sold while sony reports shipped? Those "idiots" are pretty much the whole world (including your sony friends) except for yourself, the original blog entry poster, and other folks around here too ignorant to actually read a news article.

COMMENT:Also the 9 million units is stated from now untill march , while the DS sellings are from January to december
REPLY: Ummm... are you aware of the concept of a Fiscal Year? Companies like Sony and Nintendo often keep business records that start and stop at some time other than Jan 1-Dec 31. For Nintendo and Sony, their current fiscal (business) years BOTH end on March 31, 2007. Now, go back and look at the linked article again... actually, since I doubt you have read it yet, I'll just quote the whole thing here:
"The company lowered its PSP shipment target for the year ending March 31 by 25 percent to 9 million units. In contrast, rival game maker Nintendo earlier this month raised the sales target of its DS portable machines to 20 million units from 17 million for the current business year."
The article clearly states that the estimated numbers in question span the SAME TIME PERIOD. "Current business year" = "Year nding March 31." The 9 million and 20 million numbers are the respective numbers that each company thinks will be shipped/sold in the period from April 1 2006 to March 31 2007.

COMMENT:
REPLY: Look. I'm sorry that you're still upset about the dreamcast failing, but that really has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

So, to sum everything up:
1) I have wasted way too much time feeding the trolls here.
2) PSPfanboy needs to report PSP news, not PSP fiction.
3) Read The F***ing Article. THEN blog and/or comment on it.

And one last nugget of wisdom for Y'all...

fanboy: "1) A passionate fan of various elements of geek culture but who lets his passion override social graces. 2) A person who is completely loyal to a game or company regardless of if they suck or not." - urbandictionary.com

insanity: "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein

Bottom line - I can forgive a person for poor social grace. After all, I'm a fanboy too. However, no matter how many times you look at those sales numbers, it won't change the fact that the DS is greatly outselling the PSP.

pixelator @ Oct 20th 2006 11:59AM

Turken, your own brethren at DS Fanboy are already claiming Nintendo's prediction as current fact, and last time I checked, 2 or 2.6:1 didn't get 'always rounded up' (more fanboy logic).

"Numbers are entirely out my rear, but I'm estimating conservatively. In which case, the real number of units sold is closer to 7.5 million."

Now THIS is your classic DS Fanboy talk. At least you admit where your numbers are coming. 7.5 million PSP units sold is absolutely hilarious. I guess, then, that there's an alternate dimension where these 12.5 MILLION unwanted PSP units are going? Maybe along with all the missing socks...

"Which, interestingly enough, is right where the current actual sales numbers are."

Maybe you could point us to those sales numbers? Because market analysts across the industry would love to see them, as they're not public. Hint: It's not NPD, which doesn't include online sales, or m-create, which only reports Japan numbers. We have no real data for most of Europe, South Korea, China and other countries.

One tiny suspect here is that the only ones theorizing such rock-bottom PSP sales and that there must be over 10 million sitting on shelves across the world or filling warehouses..? Nintendo fans.

pixelator @ Oct 20th 2006 12:13PM

And one more thing - I don't see anyone (fanboy or not) claiming the DS *isn't* currently outselling the PSP by a large margin.

Why is everyone taking this so seriously? This was an admitted sarcasm-blog poking fun at the gravity of sales figures and our willingness to buy into the various companies and their ever-changing sales claims.

Turken @ Oct 20th 2006 12:37PM

pixelator -

Hey. you might want to check your own numbers before criticizing mine. Those "extra 12.5 million units" happen to be DS units, which have/are being sold. it was Nintendo claiming 20 million in sales this year. Sony is only claiming a projected 9 million sold.

Now, as to the math... as I said, I assumed 85% sold, 10% on shelves, and 5% returned and recounted. So, if 5% of the nine million are actually recounts, that means 9*.95 = 8.55 million new units. and if only 85% of shipped units sell, then you get 7.3 million in actual sales. I rounded up in your favor to 7.5 million just to be nice.

Of course, it's a moot point since none of us know the actual number of returns/recounts and how many sit around without getting sold.

And let's see. you say we can't use NPD or m-create data because the true numbers's aren't public data? Okay then. Let's go with the numbers from the one company insider: Nintendo exec James Honeywell. According to someone who has access to PRIVATE data, the DS is selling 3:1.

Remember, if you invalidate all the "public" data, you don't have any justification for your numbers either, and this degenerates into a he-said/she-said argument.

So again, no matter whose published numbers you go by, all indications are that future sales will be greater than 2:1. Hence, my original posting and subsequent clarification that the original blog post is inexcusably false.

pixelator @ Oct 20th 2006 1:15PM

"I rounded up in your favor to 7.5 million just to be nice."

You pulled the worldwide PSP Sales figures out of your ass, as per your own admission, so 'rounding up' to that end (so to speak) is like putting a garnish around the turd and expecting people to eat it.

The point is, there aren't 13.5+ million unsold PSP systems sitting around out there. Seriously, you honestly believe that? If so, how do you account for chains like Wal-Mart, Target, Circuit City ordering more (at roughly the same rate as last year)?

"if you invalidate all the "public" data, you don't have any justification for your numbers either"

Ah, but I'm not touting any 'numbers' to 'justify', am I? All I'm saying is that you and other Nintyfans claiming 7.5 million PSP units sold is ludicrous and fabricated. Or are you the same person who just wrote:

"it's a moot point since none of us know the actual number of returns/recounts and how many sit around without getting sold."

...Which applies to the DS as well as the PSP.

"clarification that the original blog post is inexcusably false"

I don't agree with the PSP Fanboy fascination with comparing DS and PSP sales figures, but Andrew already stated that his blog was meant tongue in cheek. It's not the first time DS fans took something meant as sarcasm and ran with it (see the 'when being a fanboy goes horribly wrong' blog and subsequent firestorm initiated by your fellow Ninty fans).

"Let's go with the numbers from the one company insider: Nintendo exec James Honeywell. "

Uh, right - about as unbiased and fair a source as any Nintendo fan would want.

Turken @ Oct 20th 2006 2:19PM

pixelator -

You're still trying to claim that I'm claiming that there are 13.5+ million unsold PSP's? I think you need to back up a moment to my very first post. Not once have I claimed that there are 13 million unsold psp's. The 13 million number is entirely your own fabrication, cooked up from your own inability to comprehend the original article.

Read the freaking article, which is NOT about total sales since launch. It is about how many units the two companies expect to move in the current fiscal year. The facts as presented in the article are very straightforward:

1) Nintendo is projecting 20 million units sold this year.
2) Sony is projecting 9 million units shipped this year.

The fact of the matter in this discussion is equally simple.

3) The difference between shipped and sold cannot be easily quantified by you or me, so we have to make educated guesses. However, no matter what the margin of returned/recounted units is, it will ONLY result in an increase in the ratio of actual DS sales vs. actual PSP sales.
4) At best the true sales ratio is 2.2:1, conservatively the ratio is 2.6:1, and according to nintendo execs it is more than 3:1.
5) No matter which number you pick, the original blog post is wrong.
6) Your continued arguing of this matter without any attempt to justify your claims or numbers only goes to prove that you've jumped the fence from fanboyism to insanity.

Now on to the issue of shipped vs. sold -- Have you ever done anything in retail, specifically with big-box stores. Yeah, I didn't think so. Here's a quick lesson from Retail 101...

*begin lesson*
Stores get inventory shipped to them from the manufacturer at periodic intervals. The number of units sent out from the manufacturer get's counted as units shipped. The store then places the units on the shelves. Once on the shelves, units may or may not sell to consumers. Those units that do sell are counted as sold units. Sometimes, depending on the product, the next shipment comes in from the manufacturer before all the units sell from the shelves. The retailer then has to do something with the extra. What happens next depends on contracts between manufacturer and retailer. Big retailers with lots of influence (like Wal-Mart and Target) usually negotiate buy-back contracts. This means that if too manu units stack up in the walmart warehouse, walmart can return those units to the manufacturer and get their money back. So, the manufacturer then takes the returned units and ships them to a different retailer, counting them again as shipped units. Depending on who the units ship to, any one unit produced could get "shipped" back and forth numerous times before it actually sells.

So, when people refer to units getting counted twice because of returns, it is not from consumers returning units to retail stores but rather retail stores returning to manufacturer. Thus, manufacturers like to report shipped units instead of sold units because the number shipped will always be equal to or greater than the number sold. Sometimes the shipped amount will be significantly greater than the sold amount. This retailer/manufacturer interaction is also the reason that you don't see "millions" of unsold units gathering dust on shelves. The units are constantly being shipped back, dusted off, and shipped back out again.
*end lesson*

It doesn't matter what company is reporting their financial figures, whether it be Nintendo, Sony, Pepsi or Coke. Investors know the difference between shipped and sold. That's why this article is significant news. It's just a shame that so many gaming enthusiasts are [willingly] clueless.

pixelator @ Oct 20th 2006 3:54PM

OK, I thought you were talking about worldwide LTD figures. It was a bit unclear in your original statement (except where you did mention the linked article). My apologies for making that mistake.

As for the rest of it, don't mistake me with someone claiming that the DS isn't outselling the PSP by 2.5-3.0:1, because it clearly is. Regardless of a lack of solid worldwide sellthrough data, the trends indicated by the various sources point to that general ratio range.

I don't equate the value of the PSP with whether it outsells the DS, nor is my ego bruised by admitting that while PSP sales are still holding at a decent clip, the DS sales are through the roof.

As for your 'lesson' about retail shipping, I'll simply point this out yet again: If PSP sales were terribly low and there were monthly stockpiles (resulting in any buybacks), then the subsequent orders from those chains would GO DOWN. They haven't. The PSP is selling through at least adequately to keep shipments constant. At some point, even if there were equal or more PSP units coming back as there were selling through, that 'buyback effect' would only work for the first month or two - then you'd see a dropoff as chainstore A orders X amount fewer units because they only sold Y the previous month.

Turken @ Oct 20th 2006 5:09PM

Glad you finally understood the numbers.

And as far as buyback from retailers -- I don't work for sony so I can't say for certain, but the fact that the projected PSP sales numbers have been revised downwards is a pretty strong indication that retailers are indeed ordering fewer units.

Anyway, this horse is now beaten well beyond a bloody pulp, so I'm through arguing. Just remember next time (and this is especially true for you, Andrew!) to read first, think about what you read, and then post. It'll save us all a lot of pointless bickering in the end.

pixelator @ Oct 20th 2006 6:24PM

Well, now you're not only behaving like a pompous ass but laying claim to more credit than you're due.

1). I didn't "not understand the numbers" the first time, I simply attributed your original comment to worldwide YTD sales because you were vague in your original comment. The difference is, I'm willing to admit I was mistaken on that.

2). Sony's projections being lowered doesn't mean we're finally seeing the result of months of retailers shipping back millions of unsold PSP units. It means the original projections by Sony were overly optimistic. NPD indicates the PSP is selling roughly the same as last year at this time, which destroys the notion that sales have dropped in the past year. And before you harp on my use of NPD, I've always said they're a good trend indicator -- but since they don't factor online sales they can't be relied upon for complete sell through totals.

3). The 'dead horse' here has been mostly pulped not by the argument but by your insecure insults, calling people 'insane' or egotistically 'teaching lessons in retail 101'. Why couldn't you provide your data without the acerbic prickishness, or extrapolating all this dire nonsense about PSP units being shipped back and forth among retailers, implying Sony's shipped figures are VASTLY overblown? Oh, right - I forgot your own admission to being a (Nintendo) fanboy. You even defined it for us.

Why don't you quote us some more NINTENDO exec sales figures?