Joystiq [PlayStation]

Valaris @ Oct 24th 2006 11:41AM

Sweet. This is the first Microsoft lawsuit that I am happy about. I hope they win, and I hope it becomes highly publicized.

http://www.lik-sang.com/news.php?artc=3901

Leo @ Oct 24th 2006 11:43AM

This can't be true, there's nothing in this paper that can be misinterpreted at all. Just use common sense...

Geeez. Leave sony alone!!!

Paul @ Oct 24th 2006 11:53AM

ehhh, not lawsuit worthy but sony is def being a bit scummy here and i personally hold them to higher standards

Too much Hype @ Oct 24th 2006 11:57AM

It is really a senseless lawsuit. MS should be ashamed. There is nothing fake about the pricing. It takes the cheaper models of all systems and compares them. If they were going to underhanded, then they would make the Wii seem more expensive.

By the way, while Sony did sue Lik-Sang, it was the judge who rules in their favor.

And Lik-Sang can stay open. They just can't sell Sony hardware in Europe that isn't for Europe and they can sell software. The PS3 is region-free right? Where do they think we will buy the games from? That lawsuit won't stand in America or Asia. Europe is a tad anal when it comes to this sort of thing. All about the consumer and what not, supposedly. Otherwise, Sony would of taken Lik-Sang to court in Japan/China and America.

Nate @ Oct 24th 2006 11:55AM

I think their sueing because they believe this will sway people debating between a 360 and a PS3 towards the PS3. Enough to justify a lowsuit, no, but does M$ really care?

fob2000 @ Oct 24th 2006 11:58AM

Sony fails to include the HDMI adapter that you have to purchase in order to have a true HD experience. They need to add this $50 cable if they're going to add the Xbox Live subscription. Remember, Xbox Live silver will get you online and have access to everything except online matchmaking....and its free.

Pedro Van Faulk @ Oct 24th 2006 12:09PM

Oh sweet bias, I love you so. What you neglect to mention, is how there is more to the document than what you show. Sure the main doc that we've all seen is misleading, and purposely pits the most expensive 360 option (which the core is) vs the cheapest PS3 option, but that ain't it.

Below the main document are some specs. And some of them are bald faced lies. As in untrue and easily verifiable.

That's what the lawsuit is over. The false advertizing.


I also have to say how I love how partizan this chart is. They don't mention that the 360 comes with a wired controller, so the $50 is for an extra controller. They also don't mention that the 360 comes with a headset and hd cables, both that PS3 owners will have to buy seperately. And without the ability to output in HD, it isn't a real bluray player now is it?

So to make the ps3 equal to the 360, you actually have to spend up to an additional $70 or so.

Rich @ Oct 24th 2006 12:19PM

$50 cable?? how high are you??

http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Unlimited-6-Foot-Digital-Single/dp/B0007MWE1E/sr=1-125/qid=1161706391/ref=sr_1_125/002-2982498-3597667?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

$15 from Amazon and it got a 5 star rating....

so now what?? and dont forget to add the $100 if you want to use wireless internet... they forgot that one and the battery charger that doesnt come included with the system...
Anything else i forgot??

Mr BoomStick XL @ Oct 24th 2006 12:29PM

The one thing I hate about Fanboys is SH*T like this, you get over happy about nonsense!! Look own ALL 3 systems and buy the exclusives.....YOU WIN WHEN YOU OWN ALL 3!!!! Utter nonsense!! Grow the F*** up!!! Oh and P.S. Sony is REALLY taking care of their fans by including the same cable type I got with my Super Nintendo WAY BACK IN 1990!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Sony, your the BEST!!!!!!!

sonyguy @ Oct 24th 2006 12:44PM

I also read that Nintendo could sue and just might do it. Sony is false on Nintendo's online service. They say it is free for only six months when it is free forever just like the ds. Sony needs to get thier facts straight. This could be another blow to their pockets if Mircosoft or Nintendo wins their lawsuit. Sony may have deep pockets but they can't keep losing money like this.

reguy @ Oct 24th 2006 1:10PM

nick you should be ashamed
i know this is ps3fanboy but wow, OMG, you guys call yourselves journalists one second and pretend the next.
so because you love the ps3 so much you have to be as shady and desperate as sony?

this article is bush-league. wow man

Paul @ Oct 24th 2006 1:41PM

why dont you also mention how sony just sued the pants of Lik-Sang forcing them to close just because they are jerks? big business is big business.

SuicideNinja @ Oct 24th 2006 2:15PM

Sony should get more legal action (not that they haven't had enough). If they had "high standards" or "high quality", there wouldn't be exploding batteries or Disc Read Errors lawsuits with their name behind them.

That Lik-Sang crap really sucks for Europe.

TheGuyNextDoor @ Oct 24th 2006 1:46PM

I think Microsoft have dropped the ball here and are overreacting to nothing.

To me, it is a comparison table that shows merely what a punter would be required to buy to match the PS3 spec and experience as closely as possible. It's perfectly legit to me.

I don't think the Wii should have been included as it doesn't really offer a fair comparison, unless you were to include in the experience an HD-DVD player or BluRay player. But as Wii goes primarily for games with no added functionality at all, you can't really group it with the others in this comparison.

In my most humble of opinions.

BTitty @ Oct 24th 2006 2:27PM

Dont forget MR Boomstick you can use your PS2 cables in the PS3, so if you have a TV capable of HD then use your old cables. I doubt most people getting a PS3 now didnt have a PS2 and if they had the TV to do HD, like me, then they bought the cables and will use those. Otherwise they want to leave it open if you have an HDMI TV.

sonyguy @ Oct 24th 2006 2:46PM

I for one agree with paul. What Sony did to them was bogus. I hope Nintendo sues Sony also for the lie that the Wii will only have online service for free for 6 months. Nintendo has Online gaming free forever just like the DS. Quit feeding people crap Sony. For taking Lik-sang out of business I boycott all Sony products now. F@#$ Sony. They lost me as a fan. They went to far this time.

Adam @ Oct 24th 2006 2:57PM

ROFL

Sony sues and forces Lik-Sang to close shop.. and you call MS whiners?

digiNic @ Oct 24th 2006 3:18PM

This is the type of thing I just hate. And besides, you can't compare any of this until the PS3 is released, they have a functioning online service, and everything else they've "promised". We've all heard their tall tales before. I don't believe it until we see it in action. Conclusion, this chart is not even accurate for the PS3 until the product is out and everything is legit.

Eithan @ Oct 24th 2006 3:22PM

Good lord, is there anything else these SONY can do to screw us over? I mean, they've REALLY covered the bases as far as pissing on customers. And now Lik-Sang? This is retarded.

What The Geek @ Oct 24th 2006 3:29PM

The comparison is terribly misleading. I know the rest of the chart (not pictured here) has more misleading specs in it, but lets just focus on the chart Nick bothered to include in his shamefully slanted article. It uses the words "requires users to buy" which is a bald faced lie. You don't HAVE to buy a wireless controller w/ the core 360, it comes with a wired one. It would be more fair to compare the premium 360 that comes w/ the hard drive and wireless controller, and I don't know if they're still doing this, but mine came w/ 13 months of live for free.

Sony is comparing apples to oranges here anyway. The PS3 is a great value on a blue ray drive (if nothing else) but at the same time, you don't have the choice of not paying for that blue ray drive. Sony and MS have different business strageties here, neither is superior to the other imo.

As for MS's lawsuit, I don't think they're doing it to try and get money out of sony, they're doing it to get some public awareness out there about why the chart is misleading, and possibly a public apology from Sony.

dudeugotnochanceinhell @ Oct 24th 2006 3:24PM

microsoft just come on out and make that list public cuz it will blow up all over your face, the list is right, in order to match sony, we would have to spend far more than the ps3 requires.

The1 @ Oct 24th 2006 3:25PM

So its cool to lie?

Scott Krueger. @ Oct 24th 2006 3:40PM

#7 Pedro Van Faulk
You should not talk unless you know what you are talking about.
1) 360 Core is the Cheaper System.
2) They Used the Cheaper PS3 because to compare the $599 to the 360 you would have to add a bigger hard drive 60Gig to the 360 and the $99 Wireless adapter. So if you compare the 2 more expensive systems the 360 Still Costs way more, Checkout my 360 Bill:

$399 360
$ 99 Live $49 Every Year (Year 2 in November)
$199 HD-DVD
$100 XBox1 Gamesaves XSATA + Memory Cards.
-----------------------------
$797 Thats $800 Total

PS3 Base model is $499
The PS3 Premium is $599 ($600) but that comes with built in wireless and a 60Gig HardDrive. Xbox360 Wireless adapter is another $99. Wow... Now we are getting damn close to $900 and I only have a 20 Gig HardDrive that is always getting too full.

Do some research before opening your Pie Hole.

Um Huh? @ Oct 24th 2006 4:15PM

First off Mr. Scott Krueger, why dont you just say that Live! costs 400 bucks for 8 years? Then the 360 is 1100 dollars! See you're pulling Sony line all the same

Game System: NO Multiplayer
---------------------------
$399 for Premium
$ 0 Silver Live! account
$ 0 wireless controller
$ 0 headset communicator

TOTAL: $399

Game System: w/Multiplayer
--------------------------
$399 *Same as Above* plus
$ 50 for Live! Years service. Deals can lower cost to 30 bucks,

TOTAL: $449

Game AND Movie System
---------------------
$399 *Same as Above*
$ 50 *Same as Above*
$199 OPTIONAL (has no bearing on games)

TOTAL $ 648

I dont know WHAT you're talking about with the Xbox1, XSATA or Memcard?? If you're referring to SAVING YOUR GAME, thats what the harddrive is for with the Premium 360 purchase for 399...zing! So you're padding the cost just as much as they are.

The simple fact is that the HDDVD is NOT REQUIRED to play GAMES. All Sony had to do is to say:

"To match all you GET with a PS3, you must buy this..." then go on to describe all that I just outlined, plus add in the wifi card. But no, they intentionally used the core package, and implied that all the rest is necessary to play games, including making it appear as if the 360 didn't even come with a controller! You dont NEED a wireless controller to play games, so why do this Sony?

Thats why this is shady.

KilgoreTrout XL @ Oct 24th 2006 4:38PM

Some pretty serious fanboi tunnel-vision is required to write that thar' post, Mr. Doerr.

Pedro Van Faulk @ Oct 24th 2006 4:48PM

You think the average consumer is gonna go on amazon? They'll get suckered into buying the official cable and pay a premium. Regardless, they shouldn't have to pay a premium for the ability to do what the PS# is supposed to do out of the box.

If you want to output in HD, the 360 does it out of the box. The PS3 does not. End of story.

Wireless internet only comes with the $600 PS3. So you too are paying $100 for it. And the beauty of the 360 controller is that you don't need a battery charger. It runs off regular batteries. If you don't want to use AAs then you can get the play and charge kit (with battery) for about the same price as what sony is charging for the memory card adapter. That's not much.
And you don't even need to do that either. If you really don't care about wireless, you can buy a wired controller and save $10.

Not so with the PS3. No replaceable battery means you'll have to send it in to sony if the battery ever dies. And I'm sure that they won't charge you too much. Afterall, it's not like this is a compnay that was sued over making faulty systems.


And you STILL don't have voice or video chat because you don't get a headset or camera.

ozymandias @ Oct 24th 2006 5:44PM

actually there are quite a few reasons that this chart is misleading.

1.)the ps3 is being made on a 80:20 premium to core ratio. so there is an 80% chance you will HAVE to buy a premium ps3. The same holds true for the 360, where if you bought one after launch, you probably had to buy a premium because you couldnt find a core.

2.)suggesting that you have to buy a wireless controller for the 360 implies that the console doesnt come with any controller at all.

3.)the blue ray drive is required to play the ps3. the HD dvd drive is not required to play the 360. the ps3 also doesnt come with HD capable cables. so you'll be playing resistance at 480p untill you pick up some component cables.

4.) the core ps3 is not wifi capable out of the box. IT NEEDS AN EXTERNAL WIFI ADAPTER just like the 360. this is not mentioned at all.

5.)nintendo wifi service is FREE. xbox live is FREE. the only thing you need to pay for on the xbox is matchmaking. nintendo is 100% FREE. the 360 also connects to any existing wireless adapter you own. just plug your ethernet cord into a wireless router. can the same be said about the ps3? we dont know yet.

so lets sum it up whats needed to play your games.

PS3
console $500
HD cables: $15 to $30
20GB HDD: $0
controller:$0
online service:$0
ethernet port no wifi:$0
TOTAL price for HD online Gaming: $515
no options to lower cost

xbox 360
console: $300
20GB HDD:$100 memory card can subsitute hdd for $30
controller: $0 extra wireless $50.
online:$0 optional online matchmaking $50
ethernet port no wifi: $0
TOTAL price for HD online gaming with 2 controllers:$500
for single player gaming and online community: $300

I think the lawsuit is petty, but this IS SLANDER in an attempt to make a $600 gaming device more palateable.

Andir2.0 @ Oct 24th 2006 5:57PM

Where does it say Microsoft actually sued?

Mr BoomStick XL @ Oct 24th 2006 6:22PM

This is for the bias #21 comment. Your math seems a little off to me, how can you come to the defense of Sony when all they do is over promise and under deliver on a regular basis!! Not to metion they will be taking care of their DieHard fans by giving them the same cable type that I got with the Super Nintendo waaaaaaaaaay back in 1990!! Oh, is'nt supposed to be a Blu-Ray player?? It's ok though, they are giving us taladega night for FREE.......I can't watch it in HD because I have to spend another $69.99 for the correct cables!! Thanks Sony!!

Edge of Blade @ Oct 24th 2006 7:22PM

What pisses me off is the attitude of Sony these days. They kick, shove, bite, and hit, but when the ref looks at them, they go "I didn't do anything?"

Enough playing the fool. They are guilty of the worst business practices, and they are going to be exposed to the public soon enough. Sony is the next Microsoft in terms of playing dirty, and we are going to wave that flag til we see Sony buried in the ground face first.

ndoerr @ Oct 24th 2006 9:33PM

*yawn* Sorry. Just got back from a family member's funeral and took an extremely stressful exam. What's with all the hate, 360 fellows? I said it was a misleading article, because the "required to buy" line is pretty much the whole shady deal (at least with the provided chart). I also discussed why the prices themselves were misleading -- so many of the points you're making in defense have been discussed. I'm not retarded, or bush-league. Look my name up on amazon.com. Nicholas Doerr. I've been writing since before I could read. Is this a fanboy article? Sure, of course. We're supposed to spin things in Sony's favor. Sometimes its a humorously large stretch to do so (which I found this to be, thus the final comment about preparing to get flamed). Sorry if it bent anyone unnaturally out of shape, but in the same vein, thank you for all your input! I love seeing people respond, I really do. Thank you very much.

Oh! And wouldn't you believe it, but I've got a Lik-Sang article in the works, so expect that dealie tomorrow sometime.

Fredd @ Oct 24th 2006 9:34PM

Sony is being pretty shaddy.
If you take the Xbox 360 premiuum it costs 399
HD drive 199 and thats all you need,

online gaming is FREE unless you want to have guests in your account. If you get the xbox live silver your online gaming is free.

Their math is completely misleading

Scott Krueger. @ Oct 24th 2006 10:31PM

#24 Um Huh, I was showing my XBox360 and what it costs to get the equivalent Value. For me the PS3 is a WAY Better Deal.

Game System: NO Multiplayer
---------------------------
$399 for Premium
No Argument Here.

Game System: w/Multiplayer
--------------------------
$399 *Same as Above* plus
$ 50 for Live! Years service. Deals can lower cost to 30 bucks

Disagree, with Free Online and PS3 at $499 vs a Xbox360 at $399 and $50 every year (maybe $30 deal on 1st year) but every year I'm getting socked for $50.

Game AND Movie System
---------------------
$399 *Same as Above*
$ 50 *Same as Above*
$199 OPTIONAL (has no bearing on games)
TOTAL $ 648

Compared here the PS3 is a Steal.

#29 Mr BoomStick XL
The Math is 100% unbiased and accurate. It is exactly what my XBox360 Cost Me.
You don't understand the math because you are stupid.
Anybody who buys a HDMI Cable for $69 must be.
$15 will get you an HDMI Cable.
The $69 Version is for a "High Grade Cable".
HDMI is all digital, so like Fiber Optic cables there is no need for Expensive cables. I'll explain because you don't seem that bright. Digital refers to Signal levels equating to a 0 or a 1. They combine these 0s and 1s to represent Numbers 1001 1000 0111 0010 in BCD is 9872. The Lovely thing about 0s and 1s is the Voltage difference between a 0 and a 1 is so wide that you would need Noise from another world to confuse a zero from a one. So Broomstick don't open your mouth unless you actually know what you are talking about.

conspiracy_theory @ Oct 25th 2006 1:42AM

So what exactly was it that sony did? Was this document officially released to the public? Where can it be found in its orignial context? Why the hell does it matter that this scrap of paper was published? False advertising is a crime but this does seem a bit rediculous. Granted microsoft has reason to be upset but its not like it would have lost them a sale for anyone actually informed on the subject. Also nobody (atleast me) is saying that what Sony did to Lik-Sang was any better than what Microsoft is doing now. Sony wasnt loosing a profit (although as was stated Europes import laws are strict) and Microsoft wouldnt have been either!

What The Geek @ Oct 25th 2006 8:48AM

Nick,

Do you ever come up out of this site for air? That was an honest question, not a mean spirited or sarcastic one. I've been reading all three fanboy sites for some time now, and it seems to me that 360fanboy and nintendowiifanboy don't try nearly so hard as you guys do to spin things in the favor of their respective consoles.

It seems to me that when something goes wrong with the 360, lets take lumines for example, 360fanboy takes the attitude of "Doesn't it make you mad that this happened on the console we love?" where as when some negative news about sony is posted on this site it's more in the vein of "It's soooo cool, the PS3 won't be out in Europe til March! They get to enjoy the anticipation longer than the reste of us, YAY!!".

Now I do have to give Ed credit for saying that Sony punched Europe in the face by preventing importing, but this article and others like it cross the line from fanboyism to shoddy journalism. I understand you're not new to writing, so act like it. Writing is an art, same as painting or sculpting. Take pride in your art. Would you take a painter seriously if all they painted was penis's with smiley faces on them? Probably not. So stop writing smiley faced penis articles.

joe @ Oct 25th 2006 11:37PM

the reason why MS is dueing sony because of the "false advertising that sony has made against thier competitors." let look back at the ads that other companies make to sell better
1. apple v. pc(i.e. Windows)
2. satalite v. cable
3. coke v. pepsi
etc...
i strongly believe that the court will rule in favor of sony(NOT BIAS) because it is simple advertising and it has been done since the world of ads has even begun.
besides sony can sue nintendo for the motion sensing controller because sony had the patent since 1997.
sony clearly has had the advantage in the begining, try to proove me otherwise ill be glad to respond.

Concerned Gamer @ Oct 30th 2006 11:24AM

Talk all the specs and lies you want, where are the games? How do they expect us to buy a PS3 with games like Gears of War coming out on the 360? I loved hearing all the comments at the after-hours event at gamestop by the PS3fanboys in attendance during the opening scene. They were of course saying that was a prerendered movie, then the screen switches over to game play and surprise, no difference. Welcome to the next generation, movies are made from the game play engine. Get off your high horse about resistance, it looks terrible! I wouldn’t have played it on a last gen system, and I owned them all......

Chris @ Oct 27th 2006 2:34PM

What is really funny is that you guys are quoting Prices for a PS3 that nobody can really get. The XBOX is going to be a lot cheaper for the masses at Christmas, unless you perfectly preordered yours.

Smartgator @ Oct 29th 2006 9:18PM

what is extra shady is how Sony forgot to mention that PS3 "REQUIRES TO BUY" the component cables, whereas they are included with the XBOX360.

They deserve to be sued. You cant just go around willy nilly lying your head off and think you can get away with it.

joey @ Oct 29th 2006 9:22PM

oh yeah, Sony's online service being free? You think that's a good thing? It's only free because it blows, has no features and gamers would riot if they were asked to pay for garbage like that. You won't be talking to friends on it, seeing their stats, having achievements, or flawless cross-game invites and communication. Pllleeeease. As if Sony's free offering can be slightly compared to XBLA in any way shape or form. It's like comparing poo to gold, and then saying the poo is better becuase it's free.

truth @ Oct 29th 2006 9:47PM

looks like sony is scared sh*tless to me. Resorting to tactics like this. It's not a good sign when you have to straight up LIE in an attempt to appear compelling. If what they had was really that great, wouldn't they let it stand on it's own merits? All they have done with this ad is said "these guys are our competition, and we are scared". I thought they didn't have competition? Isn't that what Ken K. wanted us all to think? More lies.

Why price compare the PS3 to the 360 if the experience is SOOO drastically different? Maybe because it's not really that different after all eh? Sony is full of crap and their attitude and tactics make me not want to spend the money on a PS3 that I was planning to.

At least we can all rest assured M$ is going to rip them a new one. Sony's major weak point is software. And with all their claims about how they want the PS3 to be a "computer" they have a long frickin way to go to catch up to the software capabilities of M$. PSP user interface for a computer? C'mon, get with the program.

Sabeer Kibria @ Nov 1st 2006 11:45PM

Umm. All this talk about how the xbox 360 can handle hd right out of the box... The core console only comes with the RCA composite cables. Yes the same cables we use for our SNESes at home that we play with every day. Please don't flame me, I'm just stating the facts. The Premium Xbox 360 is the one that comes with HD cables(Component). If you want to get full 1080P resolution (Most 1080P TVs need either VGA, or HDMI to display 1080P) you need to pay $40 for an Xbox 360 VGA cable. Note this is just information, so no need to get mad.

kevin @ Nov 14th 2006 10:52PM

ok sure th hd-dvd drive isn't included in the original price, but if u get the premium 360 package u get everything else for only $100 more including xbox live silver for free. plus the chart doesn't include the extra price for online play that ps3 game developers will tack on

Justin @ Nov 17th 2006 1:44AM

Microsoft just SUCKS! They think someone else might get some business, so they have to try to stop that. They try to take over everything,& monopolize the markets Don't you have enough, microsoft? Get over yourself!