Let's discuss -- backwards compatibility downgrades?
by Nick Doerr 
{ Dec 14th 2006 at 11:30AM }
Some say that the first batch o' PS3's are the ones with this issue, some say it's completely random, some say it's all PS3's and still others claim that it's the TV's being played on. It's apparently not the TV, or the cables, or the games themselves. It's the system. But is it all the systems? We're handing out our junior detective badges to all our super-sleuth readers to check your systems with the games mentioned on the original thread or the games on the video.
Are you ready? Let's begin the investigation... and if it's a truly unanimous issue, Sony, we know you don't read this site, but by golly, this can be fixed with a firmware update. Please?
[thanks MiKE and/or Slurrey!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
vox @ Dec 14th 2006 11:46AM
You assume too much Nick. Everyone with something negative to say about PS3 must be a 360 fanboy by default huh?
Did it occur to you they might be annoyed PS3 fanboys? Or people who "were" PS3 fans but are now jilted by how many corners Sony cut to get to market.
I know it's hard for you to fathom the idea that some gamers don't like to just bend over for Sony and take it, but we aren't all wimps who politely grovel before game companies picking up the scraps of their failed projects for them.
Microdot @ Dec 14th 2006 11:52AM
i have only played a couple of ps2 games so far on the ps3 (busy playing ps3 games, and when im not, im busy tinkering around in ydl getting mplayer, etc working). i have looked at mgs: subsistence and xenosaga3. i guess i got a good one, or those games are fine, or my tv is super... as i dont see it. it looks just like the original. it doesnt look any BETTER than the original... but definitely not worse. the only thing i have noticed is it seems to be a little darker shades (kind of like these images all over the net)... it may be my imagination though. im not going to hook back up my ps2 to test.
you know what would be nice though? a day when the uber whiners and complainers actually gave more of a shit about making "their prefered console of choice" better.... or *gasp* god forbid actually playing the games on their console, rather than spending months taking a magnifying glass to a monitor to look for ps3 flaws. unless you own stock in m$, sony, or nintendo... why the HELL does it matter what the rest are doing? its odd seeing this gang mentality.
granted... i digg on the wii every chance i get, as i am severely disappointed in it. i wanted one when the revolution was first let out of the bag. then as the details came in... it slowly turned me. no hdd... no hd support... no nothing. and the 360... well... after 3 consoles failed in two months, i was pretty much done with that pile.
regardless... on this issue though: i dont see it. maybe its just certain games... but ive yet to see the dreaded pixelation that has every 360 owner up in arms. (ironic, isnt it?)
Microdot @ Dec 14th 2006 11:54AM
"Or people who "were" PS3 fans but are now jilted by how many corners Sony cut to get to market."
and that tells me you were biased from the start. what cut corners? for fucks sake... first its too much added to it... we want choice in blu-ray... we dont want it forced... we dont need 1080p... etc. now its cut corners? maybe you should go grab the latest talking points from m$ and brush up a little bit.
how about this: if its got the games you want to play - get one. if it doesnt... dont. pretty simple, isnt it? think you can wrap your brain around that idea?
KilgoreTrout XL @ Dec 14th 2006 12:20PM
Hey, at least you guys get to play them.
What the hell am I going to do with my (now illegal) copy of The Guy Game? BG&E? Capcom Classics? Mega Man Anthology? Sniper Elite? D&D: Heroes? they're currently collecting dust.
The graphics on those games were kinda shitty anyway.
rockstar @ Dec 14th 2006 12:26PM
hmm that's weird I dont see any differences in my monitor though while playing FFXII. It could be because i play it on a low res (pc monitor).. but i dunno. So far.. (and always be) I'm impressed with the system.
oh and yea that doesnt seem strange to me because most of the posters did 2 things:
1. Bashing ps3 in the name of 360
2. Keep telling 360 > ps3 in the most annoying manner.
*rant*
Just like my co worker. He tried to persuade and influence me not to buy PS3, because PS3 was a joke (bad, buggy etc). Yet, he told me to buy 360, and if I had to buy a different console as my last resort.. a WII. It's just it really annoys me that someone who doesn't has PS3 speaks.
Even though he had one, I'd take that as a suggestion but other than that..
And anyway.. when I told him I got a PS3, his reaction was like hmmpphh.. sigh.. whatever..
yea .. whatever.
Weymaster @ Dec 14th 2006 12:54PM
I tested the games on my PS2 and my PS3.
When using the standar cables the games don't look very nice (specially noticeable in FFXII) as the videos are pixelated and such on the PS3, PS2 looks great (very nice game). Shadow of the Colossus did look better on the PS3, the framerate was smoother. I did miss the rumble on that game though.
When using the HDMI cable, the image became much much better. I didn't use the progressive scan function or anything, just the Vanilla.
My TV set is a Toshiba HD CRT, it is a year old and it is (or was last year) entry level. Not very expensive, note very versatile. Nothing special.
He dicho.
ndoerr @ Dec 14th 2006 1:10PM
@ vox -- I apologize. Again, my cynicism got the better of me and it was pretty tough to detect, I gather. Or else ya really wanted to yell at me, huh? =P
No worries. I get that when I talk to people. I'll be completely sarcastic and they'll, well, slap me every once in a while. Anywho, hope it didn't ruin your day!
Andir2.0 @ Dec 14th 2006 1:37PM
I think it has to do with trying to scale the image wider than rendered. I haven't tried to play around with it, but check and see if it matters if you set it to display in 4:3 or 16:9. You can see that the pixels are shifted horizontally, not vertically. Also, hooking up HDMI will not allow it to run in 480i. At least mine doesn't give the option for 480i. I haven't tried it yet.
SuicideNinja @ Dec 14th 2006 1:45PM
I don't see why they couldn't just upscale them like the 360 does (unless the PS3 really doesn't have a scaler). Most PS2 games need the help. I swear they promised that they were going to upscale PS1 and PS2 games up to 1080p. Maybe it's my fault for assuming they would at least do that.
As far as the PS3 vs 360 fanboy war, the assumption cannot be made on both sides in regards to quality. Plenty of PS3's (and Wii's) are going to have their own set of problems, so it's a little early to claim higher reliability on the PS3's (or Wii's) end.
Sony pissed me off with the DRE problem in the PS2's multiple times. And their constant deceit is annoying as well. Microsoft pissed me off with the 90 day warranty and the red lights issue in the 360's. Both companies have no idea what "customer service" means.
I've yet to have a problem with Nintendo, but I'm going to bet that the Wii will bring me my first Nintendo mishap. On the other hand, I know they have the best CS of the three, so concerns are low.
(BTW, how long is the PS3's warranty so we can rub that in Microsoft's face?)
Andir2.0 @ Dec 14th 2006 1:49PM
@rockstar: BTW, my friends did the same thing. 360 owners definately have something against the PS3. I think it has to do with the fear of content loss. :p I've never been happier with my PS3 to be perfectly honest and I could care less what Sony "said" as long as they put out a good system. This scaling thing I can see as a firmware issue. If not, I'm not losing sleep on it. My console hasn't bricked, red lighted, scratched discs, lost connection with the controller, or been dropped from an online game. So I can't complain.
Weymaster @ Dec 14th 2006 1:54PM
Sony's warranty is 1 year.
He dicho.
Thomas @ Dec 14th 2006 3:47PM
This game was jaggy when using the ps3. The same hold's true with older ps1 games, such was Ridge racer two. I thought it was due to me using the HDMI cable, I was thinking that it'd look better if the regular video(yellow, red, white) cables were used.
Microdot @ Dec 14th 2006 2:30PM
SuicideNinja: "I don't see why they couldn't just upscale them like the 360 does (unless the PS3 really doesn't have a scaler). Most PS2 games need the help. I swear they promised that they were going to upscale PS1 and PS2 games up to 1080p."
the overwhelming majority of ps2 games were not created in a 16:9 aspect ratio, or for hd since it was not possible with the ps2. upsizing a 640x480 output to 1920x1080.... its going to look like shit. it doesnt matter what kind of hardware you have... there is nothing on the planet that would make it look good. the xbox had the advantage of coming out originally when wide screen was starting to take off, and accomodated it. games were written for it (although not all) and some even for hd resolutions. thats the difference. scaling a 852x480 (480p) screen up to 1920x1080 takes nothing. open an image in photoshop and try it out. you'll see what i mean.
to my knowledge, sony never said anything about game up-res-ing. i remember them mentioning upscaling dvd's i think... but its a vague memory (and i think it was mentioned that it will be in an upcoming firmware update). welcome to prove me wrong though. i havent paid that close of attention to the older games or movie aspect of it. only the hardware, open platofmr, and ps3 games themselves (which is all that matters to me)
JK @ Dec 14th 2006 4:20PM
Got a serious question:
What is the display setting on the PS3 when people run PS2 games? Can someone try running the PS3 at the lowest resolution setting (actually set the res down in system settings) and run the PS2 game, rather than leave it at 1080p and run the PS2 game? Does anyone think this will help?
I don't actually have a PS3 so can't run through it myself, but am very curious.
I imagine it's sort of like when you run a PC game on an LCD at non-native resolution, or unmatching resolutions, and it looks worse/fuzzier/etc.
Colin @ Dec 14th 2006 3:18PM
I have noticed no serious issues with PS2 games looking like crap. And I played a good 30 hours of FF12 on my PS3 (after playing 60 hours on my ps2).
Certain things (like the logos in the beginning)are oddly aliased, but the ingame graphics looked the exact same.
This is on a 50" 1080p DLP hooked up with HDMI cables. If it was a 'serious' issue, my roommate and I would have noticed it. (And he's actually kind of a 360 fanboy and he said he didn't notice a damn thing either.)
Honestly the biggest thing I noticed was that the gamma was cranked up compared to the ps2. Other than that, I got no issues with PS2 games on my PS3.
-Colin
Josh @ Dec 14th 2006 7:03PM
I own a PS3. I'm also an Xbox 360 owner. Does this automatically cancel out my opinions? Do I give Sony a hard time for the hell of it? Granted, in life, there are people who are jerks and want to ruffle feathers but not everyone who complains does it out of hatred/contempt.
I'm having terrible issues with the PS3 playing PS2 games (and PS1). I only have a few games to try out (Kingdom Hearts, Shadow of the Colossus, WipEout Fushion) but they are all suffering from the jaggies. This is on a 65" Toshiba with 1080i (and yes, I've got the downconverting 720p image problem too).
I'm rather frustrated at the moment but I haven't come to the point of being "unbearably pissed off".
Scott Krueger @ Dec 14th 2006 3:55PM
End of Discussion.
How can 360 Fanboys even get into this argument.
Less than 5% of XBox Games Run on the 360.
So if you own any of the other 95%. YOU DONT EVEN GET TO PLAY IT.
I'll take slight Graphical Downgrades over a message that basically says "Sorry, but Microsoft did a terrible job making you 360 Backwards Compatible, You Can't play this Game".
This terrible job of backwards compatibility has caused me to favor buying PS3 versions of multi-platform games.
Outside of Halo3 I don't think I will be buying anymore 360 games. Because what is going to happen in 5 years when the Next Xbox Comes out.
chillski @ Dec 14th 2006 4:05PM
i figured everyone was having this problem with their ps3's.
i tried metal gear solid 3 yesterday, it was so awful u could literally count the pixels on my screen.
David @ Dec 14th 2006 4:13PM
Scott,
I agree that PS3 still has the advantage over Xbox 360 in backwards compatability, but then you just fall off from there. They didn't do a "terrible job" of making the 360 backwards compatable, they did a great job, considering what had to be done to get the games to run. The PS3 doesn't have to emulate the hardware of the PS2, so the process of playing old games is a LOT simpler. Also, you say you are not going to buy any more 360 games at all besides Halo 3 because they may not be playable on the next Xbox... are you serious? There are *very* few games that I would want to play non stop for 5 years. By that logic, what's the point of investing in a gaming console at all if you stop using it when the next console comes out? You just simply can't live by that kind of code in the electronics world; things get outdated too fast. Maybe you should try picking up knitting or pottery. Those things are timeless.
Blaine Train @ Dec 14th 2006 8:49PM
MY PS3 DOES THE SAME EXACT THING. ITS A PIECE OF CRAP. I SPENDED 600 AND SUMTHING DOLLARS FOR A OVERSIZED GEORGE FORMAN GRILL. I'M HAPPY I ALSO HAVE A 360 OR ILL BE SMASHING MY PS3 TO BITS.
ps
dont believe wat i have just type, ima xbox 360 fanboy LMAO
Tristan @ Dec 14th 2006 6:14PM
I have a 360. I would like a few xbox games to be playable on the 360, but they aren't. If I really wanted to play them that bad I would just hook up my Xbox. I am going to get a 360, but only when there are games that are ps3 only and are actually worth it. I will try to get one in the spring when Warhawk comes out. I'll probably get resistance also. There isn't much right now that separates the ps3 from 360 most of the games are on both systems and we all know that the 360 versions look better. We all know this may be because of developers lack of experience with the cell. Fight Night had no excuse though and they messed that up. The ps3 won't have any good exclusives until next fall at least. The 360 is a year ahead but it has alot of great games you can only get on it. If you think I am a fanboy fine, but all I have said makes sense.
Groogy @ Dec 14th 2006 6:16PM
I’m so tired of hearing fanboy this and fanboy that. I own all 3 new systems, and each has their flaws. But you people that just hang on one company’s nuts are funny. Your like a free PR Rep that really has no idea what your talking about.
WhackMushrooms @ Dec 14th 2006 8:56PM
I really dont see this issue on my ps3 playing FFXII or FFX ... 32" Samsung LCD via Component cables ... i got my PS3 2 weeks ago.
Microdot @ Dec 14th 2006 6:58PM
"If you think I am a fanboy fine, but all I have said makes sense."
"I am going to get a 360, but only when there are games that are ps3 only and are actually worth it."
o'rly? that makes sense to you, does it?
maybe you should have mommy take away the keyboard for a while to help you concentrate on your english studies.
SP @ Dec 14th 2006 7:29PM
im playing FFXII on my PS3 right now and its a SDTV and with regular cables i havent noticed one problem. and resident evil outbreak no problem and god of war no problem and ill chekc FFX in about 30 minutes i dont feel like stoping XII at the moment lol.
Scary Perry @ Dec 14th 2006 7:35PM
I have yet to try BC, but FFXII and Yakuza are games that I would like to play.
As for the console debate in general, I have a ps3 and 360, no question the 360 is better now. Heck, I don't even think it is close. XBL, achievements, online content and 2nd gen games all make the 360 better right now.
It will all be moot in a year though. PS3 is more powerful, and it will take 60% of the market IMO.
So, both are good investments IMO.
The Wii - I hate that thing.
Groogy @ Dec 14th 2006 7:48PM
@24 like I said your a free PR Rep that has no idea what your talking about. lol
Tristan @ Dec 14th 2006 7:57PM
I meant ps3 you idiot. If you weren't such an ass you would ignore that.
Tristan @ Dec 14th 2006 8:06PM
That is also one thing I hate about ps3 fanboys most of them are assholes. There are very few that aren't.
Andir2.0 @ Dec 14th 2006 8:28PM
@Tristan: Damn, thanks for the stereotype... :(
Tristan @ Dec 14th 2006 8:41PM
I didn't mean all, it's these guys that give them that stereotype.
Jon @ Dec 14th 2006 9:19PM
I was thinking of selling my PS2 for a PS3 good thing I didn't do that.. No PS3 this holiday for me
Microdot @ Dec 14th 2006 9:59PM
BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
this is too much. HAHAHAHAHA
"I meant ps3 you idiot. If you weren't such an ass you would ignore that."
if it was a typo... which EVERYONE does... i would have glanced right over it. i wouldnt have even given it a second though. but you "meant" ps3, and "typed" 360.... i am supposed to know that? your sentence made NO sense. you sure do like to cry about being proved wrong though.
and YES!! i am an asshole. i have NO qualms about that. i get death threats (literally) three times a day on my site. and why? because i voice my opinion... and more often than not, it does not sit well with the public, or violently offends someone. the day that i start to care, or the day that i censor myself so i dont hurt your feelings, is the day i decide to go stand in front of a train.
i have also owned a 360, i bought my son a wii, i own the original xbox (or did til it crapped out a few weeks ago), a ps2, a nes, genesis, master system, snes, n64, intellivision, atari 2600, and a dreamcast. now... for those that think im a "fanboy"... please feel free to cram something long and sharp into your mouth and swallow.
"Stick with your opinion's why you favor your system and quit harassing others who have their own opinion you JACKASS!! You're annoying as hell!!"
harassing others? im on a PS3 WEBSITE... TALKING ABOUT THE PS3... and im seeing posts crying about it sucking, or the xbox is better, or wii ftw!!one! who is harassing who here? sorry the truth is harassment in your eyes.... maybe you should find a new hobby.. like going to the martha stewart blog and crying about how bad she sucks.
point is... im tired of reading the bullshit from simple minded slackjawed halfwits without two brain cells to rub together, much less a clue about what the fuck they are talking about, going out of their way to a ps3 fan site, and CRYING about the ps3. if you dont like it... FUCKING LEAVE. problem solved. you win. your console is better. the longer you sit here and cry, and whine, and kick and scream... the longer im going to make you look like the fucking idiot you are. simple as that.
if you have an HONEST beef with sony... because you OWN one, and have an issue.... this isnt the place to tell them about it. in fact, crying about it here does absolutely nothing. you need to hit the ps boards at the very least, or contact customer service. this is ps3fanboy.com... not ps3comecryandwewillcomfortyou.com
now... back on track... you may now all proceed with the crying.
Jenn @ Dec 14th 2006 10:03PM
MICRODOT FTW! ROFLMAO!
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JStephenson @ Dec 14th 2006 10:23PM
OMG! LOL! I almost wet myself laughing at Microdot's post!
Nicely done! I agree with everything there 100%. If you don't like the PS3, why are you here? Go complain about it into your pillow. Someone give Microdot some stars or something. LOL
Tristan @ Dec 14th 2006 10:29PM
I never said I didn't like the ps3. I said there is no real reason for me to get one till at least the spring because most of the games I can get on my 360. The main games I want for a ps3 are Resistance and Warhawk nothing else.
Mike @ Dec 15th 2006 9:04AM
I spent the last month or so playing FFXII on a PS2 and a projection HDTV. I just got a PS3 two days ago, and there is no doubt. It's true. FFXII is jaggy compared to the PS2. The pics we've seen are accurate. I see it in FFX and FFX-2 as well. The ganes are quite playable, it isn't annoying but it is very noticable on this TV. I needs anti aliasing. I'm going to assume they will work on this in a firmware update. I had expected the same or better on the PS3, not worse!
Interestingly, a PS1 game like FFIX actually looks better on the PS3 than on the PS2. Looks very nice and is shown in 480p.
Andir2.0 @ Dec 15th 2006 12:09AM
I like club sandwiches, with mustard, bacon, and a little mayo. Pile the meat on and toast her up. That's what I'm talking about...
Oh, wait. What's the topic of discussion again?
hacked2123 @ Dec 15th 2006 12:29AM
If anyone has ever used an emulator...namely the old PSone emu that was legally sold...well basically PS3 is doing the same thing...or so it seems (a firmware update must be in the mix...(like how with playstation2 you could change how the PSone games were filtered (in one of the PS2 main menu options))
All it needs is a 2x Antisoptic filter and Bam! better than new.
I have and love my PS3 to death (Downloadable content, YDL5, wicked games, DVD and Blu-Ray Disc support, AND backwards compatible)
BTW its definitely not a scalar issue (namely not 480i to 480p or 720p) Correct me if I'm wrong but the PS3 doesn't have the same hardware as the PS2 and therefore has to emulate certain functions, such as the video filters (which is mostly what is mentioned on Youtube videos)
Hope this helps :)
Next-Gen-Gamer @ Dec 15th 2006 1:15AM
I love how Microdot takes everything so seriously. I supposed we can't all realize that they're just games. Only ignorant people argue and flame over opinions.
Irwin @ Dec 15th 2006 3:06AM
thank you gamerdefender,
but as much as you tried, i can only see it making him feel better about himself. pissed someone off, mission accomplished.
what a low life
dam @ Dec 15th 2006 10:50AM
Man i have been a sony fan for the longest time but i also got a 360 and microsoft is doing a lot of stuff write while sony keeps messing up. a sony rep told me that microsoft is planning on buying konami so MGS is going to be 360 exclusive. so trust me when i tell you, anti-aliasing issues with PS2 games running on PS3s are the least of sony's problems
Burnt Meatloaf @ Dec 15th 2006 6:16AM
I have a feeling this can't be fixed. The PS3 actually uses PS2 hardware with its own dedicated memory, and that probably means the PS3 can't access the PS2 frame buffer.
I hope I'm wrong.
Andir2.0 @ Dec 15th 2006 9:20AM
@Mike:
Can you change the in game widescreen option and see if it matters?
Weyoun42 @ Dec 15th 2006 10:24AM
Hey, let me lead off with stating that I have all three "next" gen systems, so I'm just a fanboy of games. Not that I really can afford the games after buying the systems, but that's my problem to deal with. Anyway, after I got my PS3 I decided to be nice and sell my PS2 to a coworker for a very low price. That was, oh, three days before all this news hit. So, last night I got home from work and popped in FFX. It looked awful. So, I put in Champions of Norrath, just for kicks, and it looked just fine.
Now, what I'm worried about are three new PS2 games that are coming for Christmas (two for my wife and one for both of us). We're getting FFXII, Kingdom Hearts 2 and Okami. I'm running the PS3 on a 5 year old Sony Trinitron SD-TV through the S-video inputs. Are any of those three games ones that will be horribly jaggied like FFX was? I never paid attention to what games support what resolutions (since I know I can only display in the lowest anyway) and it's sounding like that may be a factor in how PS2 games come out on the PS3. And, quite honestly, I'd like to know before I open them. FFX wasn't rendered unplayable, but with a game that I remember as being visually stunning (for a PS2 title), that takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it. Thanks in advance for any help!
Kspraydad @ Dec 15th 2006 11:25AM
@ Groogy...
Perhaps the majority of people DON'T have the ability to purchase all three new systems. Perhaps they even barely can afford one. When you in that situation you are more sensitive about the system you ultimately choose as you really had to invest time thinking about where to spend you limited funds.
Nice to be you but most people have to choose.
Microdot @ Dec 15th 2006 11:39AM
"I love how Microdot takes everything so seriously."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
yes. thats it. i take it all so seriously. so serious in fact, i go out of my way, to go to a website that is built for fans of a particular console specifically, to sit and whine about it. yep. you nailed it. you're a regular einstein you are. you deserve a cookie.
point is... in every thread, in every article, in every page of this site... there are a handful of idiots that like to do nothing more than sit and whine about the ps3. at first, it was funny. then 6 months passed and it got irritating reading through it. now, roughly a year later... its just plain sad, and im sick of reading it. if you dont like the ps3... thats fine. nobody has a gun to your head. if you enjoy the wii or the 360, more power to you. play them, and enjoy the time you spend with it. the ps3 isnt for everyone... just like the wii isnt for everyone... or the 360 isnt for everyone. people have different tastes. if you dont like the ps3.... why are you here? why go out of your way to cry about it?
im done in this mess of a thread though. if you want to whine or complain about me hurting your feelings (you know who you are) any further, feel free to come to my site and cry your eyes out. whine until your hearts content. there are plenty of tampons and hankies and people to pat you on the shoulder and comfort you.
moving along though.... back on topic:
i tested out ffx last night, as well as ff12, black, and something else i cant remember. i still dont see the issue. i know WHAT people are complaining about... but i guess its not happening to me. so it must be something relative to the hookup, or tv, or something. dont know. my basic setup that i tested last night was via hdmi into a sharp 42" aqous. i also moved it into my bedroom (where it will most likely stay now) on a 32" viewsonic hdtv... also hdmi... neither showed the issue. maybe its hdmi?
sisqo @ Dec 15th 2006 1:42PM
I think it might be the individual ps3's because I got mine at the second batch and It plays all my games perfect..i think if anything it improves the sound and viuals a tad. I tried all my games..minus ths games because i dont have...
and yes, not all people that come here and bash on the system are 360 fanboys..but I think a good 80% are. and thats enough to say..all 360 fanboys bash ps3 yada yada..
Nash @ Dec 15th 2006 2:35PM
@Weyoun42
Look on the back of the box before you buy the game. If it is 480p (which seems to look the best on PS3), it will say Proggressive Scan in the "Supports" area. If there is no indication of anything, that means it's 480i.
Just to throw my opinion in, I'm using a 50" HD Widescreen tv...my 480i PS2 games looked like ass on it when I was using my PS2 w/component. It's not improved using the PS3, but it's not any worse either. I got my PS3 in the 2nd batch.
Tristan @ Dec 15th 2006 2:41PM
Never said I didn't like the ps3 all I said is that there is nothing right now that makes me want to spend 600 dollars in the spring maybe when Warhawk comes out then I will probably get one. I never said I didn't like the ps3. I feel bad for you kid having a father like you must be an embarrassment for him.