European PS3 -- sacrificing backwards for forwards [update 2]
We're referring to a decreased percentage in the European PlayStation 3's ability in respect to backwards compatibility. How awkward of a sentence was that? Let us explain before the poo gets tossed around. See, the model being released in Europe was designed differently... instead of having a chip run backwards compatible games like in the current US and Japanese models, backwards compatibility will be taken care of solely by software. We imagine that old games will have trouble, but those released in the past year or so should be A-OK.Analyst Alex Kwiatowski had this to say: "I'm as disappointed as the next game player about the reduced backward compatibility, but even the most nostalgic, misty-eyed gamers will have their steely hearts impressed by the new features that PS3 games provide." Not only will the games impress, but this new model of PS3 has improved sound and graphics capabilities to stir up interest. There weren't any specifics, but guys, you might want to keep your PS2 and plug it into a small TV or something. Mine's upstairs, but is getting very little use.
[also available in Joystiq flavor!]
[update: fixed a wonky sentence. Or tried to.]
[update 2: CVG has an update on the situation -- check it out!]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
jgreath @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:21AM
"Not only the games, but this new model of PS3 has improved sound and graphics capabilities."
???
Thomas @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:21AM
The Europeon Market, has been so patient, they're last to get the system, and now on top of that they're being stiffed on the backwards compatibility. All will be forgiven if Sony delivers on their end... it had been discussed before about taking that chip out and using software for the BC... Sony realizes that they're number 3 and they need software that's going to make people realize that the Playstation 3 is worth 600. They need good exclusives from in house, because all exclusives from 3rd parties will eventually find their way onto other systems, as we've seen before in the past, and as we're seeing right now.
Someone @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:33AM
@1
I'm guessing he might be referring to it being able to play PS2 games that are backwards compatible with it at a higher quality due to the software emulation.
While it's concerning to see Sony jump into full software emulation of PS2 games so early (especially considering it wasn't that long ago that the jaggy image problem was fixed on PS3s with PS2 chips inside), it could be a good sign that Sony is pursuing an aggressive cost-cutting plan which should eventually lead to a price cut. While there may not be 98% backwards compatibility, somewhere around 90% is still reasonable as long as they work on expanding compatibility harder than Microsoft did.
Onceuponatime @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:35AM
I have been a Sony fanboy for a long time. Inspite of all the missteps with the PS3 I patiently waited for them to fix their issues and regain their glory. I dont see that happening. For once, the traditional Japanese style management is going to fail them. They are so out of touch with the buying population, its scary and even funny.
What does Sony think?
They can make anything and expect millions to line up for it?. With every misstep, they are ensuring that they will lose every bit of fanbase it has accumulated carefully over the years. With this European compat fiasco, you can scratch Europe from the list of PS3 domains. NA is formally 360 simply because we americans love our FPSes. In Japan, the Nintendo craze seems to go from strength to strength. Europe was Sony's hope. With this, that is squashed. Expect Sony to rapidly fall from grace to a has-been in no more than a year.
PS3 fanboys, from one to another, the product is officially dead even before it had a chance. The irony is that the PS3 is a good device. Bad pricing, awful PR, mistake after mistake, and finally and most importantly the ego did it.
Today I will stop visiting the PS3 new sites. Simply because its akin to flogging a dead horse. Its been fun people. Sayonara.
Dolla Dolla @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:40AM
Unbelievable.
Less is more, eh Sony? This wouldn't ruffle my feathers so much if, you know, they actually launched it for a price reflecting the change in manufacturing. Sony saves a buck while sticking it to the consumer. I see ... make a quick dirty profit so you can possibly cut the price sooner?
Oh Europe, what have you done to deserve this?
bootsielon @ Feb 23rd 2007 11:16AM
This is bull.
The PS3 is (or was?) the system I want the most. I haven't bought it because I'm waiting for the system to get at least three or four games I really want. Yet backwards compatibility is probably one of the features I actually want the most on ANY console. If by the time that PS3 has 3-4 games I want, yet they botch Backwards compatibility (in Japan/America), then I might wait even more, and I doubt sony wants that.
proc0cell @ Feb 23rd 2007 11:35AM
Could the modified ps3 include a 65nm version of the cell processor?
[GeekPunk] @ Feb 23rd 2007 1:06PM
I totally agree with Dolla Dolla, some of the price of the PS3 was to do with them including the hardware to enable back-compat (which was one of their main selling points), now that that's not even in there anymore and they're still charging us more than everywhere is a disgrace. We've always had a raw deal, and we've kinda gotten used to it, but this is just outrageous.
Admittedly, I'm not a huge Sony fan since they destroyed my beloved SEGA, but hearing their plans in 2005, I was extremely excited by this machine and its respective tech demos, but it's just gone downhill from there. £425 would have been a steal for what they were proposing and it would have sold loads, even to a hater like me. It's like paying for a cow and only getting the tail, or it's arse.
Andir3.0 @ Feb 23rd 2007 1:25PM
there is also the possibility that these Cells have all 8 SPEs? I'm curious now.
It didn't take long for a "viral blogger" to step up and say hat this was the straw that broke the camel's back. The "ex-sony fanboy that suddenly turned a 360 (ironic)" I'm glad the competition is right on top of this announcement and trying to make it out to be worse than it is.
How many PS2 games have I played on my 360? 0
How many did I put in just to see them run? about 10, then I got bored and went back to playing NFS and my other PS3 games.
I say, big whoop-de-freakin do. So your getting software emulation instead of hardware. Cry some more.
Erren @ Feb 23rd 2007 1:35PM
I agree with the above post. People are throwing this news way out of proportion and it's getting ridiculous.
Just get over it already. We all knew software emulation was coming, and I guess it did sooner rather than later. Europe should be happy that they're getting a newer model than us here in the US.
knoxin @ Feb 23rd 2007 1:54PM
GOD damm i posted that on a one of these commets age's ago, Team Sony Told us where we work lol its chasis B euro is getting LOL
How many people as it pissed off well lets say there console is not getting the Pre orders they should be getting, and how many will be getting returned ALOT
sony Fuking the UK once again Damm them
Tyler @ Feb 23rd 2007 2:08PM
Emulation people, the 360 does it, the PS3 can too, after all it has a higher theoretical processing power
jigzat @ Feb 23rd 2007 2:18PM
Is not like they will never have 100% BC. I think is great, with software emultion they can improve the graphics and frame rate of older games. Plus because they know the innards of their systems (PS1 PS2) it should not take a lot of time to get 100 % BC. What i do find disturbing is that our "PAL's" at Europe shoud pay more than the folks here in the Americas and Japan and their consoles wont have EE chip or GS old chip
carl @ Feb 23rd 2007 2:29PM
I was looking forward to EVENTUALLY at long last getting PS3 in March- ages after everyone else. Now I find out today the following...
As I live in UK I have to wait longer than all the other major markets...pay MORE than all the other territories...and now GET A SH*T VERSION WITH EMULATED backward compatibility- NO PRICE REDUCTION THOUGH!!!!
CRACK ...that was the sound of the last straw breaking the camels back- screw you fony im getting a 360. I will avoid your products from now on.
Foppe @ Feb 23rd 2007 2:50PM
I´ve said it before and I´m saying it again.
Sony seems to love assraping Europe.
Raycer @ Feb 23rd 2007 3:53PM
I thought it was silly of Sony to have seperate chipset for PS2 games overall. The 360 uses emulation fpr old game, so it would make sense to do so on the PS3 as well. And like 13 said; It actually makes it easier to fix and/or add features to the emulation process thru updates since it is just software.
kman79 @ Feb 23rd 2007 5:28PM
Is it really that big of an issue? If you think about it, if your going to be playing PS2/PS1 games, you already have the older hardware that the games were intended to be played on. Less parts also decreases the chances of hardware failure and mostl likely less heat, which is always a plus. Your not really getting less for your money since your still getting what you were said to get. Emulation might not be 100 percent from the start, but it's a developing process with that goal in mind. Software emulation brings about a lot of pluses also. For those wanting upconverted resolution from PS2 games, emulation makes those possibilities even more likely. If I was in EU and was going to be purchasing the PS3 this news is not going to deter me from getting one
TheNatural @ Feb 23rd 2007 8:12PM
"there is also the possibility that these Cells have all 8 SPEs? I'm curious now.
It didn't take long for a "viral blogger" to step up and say hat this was the straw that broke the camel's back. The "ex-sony fanboy that suddenly turned a 360 (ironic)" I'm glad the competition is right on top of this announcement and trying to make it out to be worse than it is.
How many PS2 games have I played on my 360? 0
How many did I put in just to see them run? about 10, then I got bored and went back to playing NFS and my other PS3 games.
I say, big whoop-de-freakin do. So your getting software emulation instead of hardware. Cry some more."
This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen on this blog.
Ted Nemeth @ Feb 23rd 2007 8:41PM
I was getting jealous thinking about what UK fans are going to get in the way of "improved sound and graphics". And all comentors have is bitching about decreased compatibility? Once you get your PS3, you are not going to want to look at old PS2 games, I played them a few times and sold them to buy more PS3 games. I can't believe everyone is so worried about getting screwed. I think it is just more 360 players posting hate.
bootsielon @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:08PM
People that say "this isn't a big deal" don't know what they're talking about. This really IS a big deal. One of the primary reasons I adopted a PS2 so fast was that my entire PS1 collection was playable. I was going to do the same with PS3 once a few games come out, but if there is no decent backwards compatibility by then (that is, the original model is discontinued and BC isn't fixed), then I refuse to buy it as soon as that happens.
If Sony doesn't get this fixed as soon as possible, then they can kiss goodbye another 10 million users or so, because one of the selling points of the PS3 was this, and that was one of the great reasons why PS2 was more successful than PS1.
This is a HUGE deal. I'm tired of Sony shooting themselves in the foot. I'm gonna own all consoles, but I wanna see Sony succeed (and I don't want an expensive paperweight either).
silkylove @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:35PM
"...the PS3 will feature backwards compatibility with PS and PS2 games from day one. I'm emphasizing this because, from what I hear, there are some platforms that haven't been able to completely do this. It's costly in terms of hardware, but we'd rather [invest] firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on."
Krazy Ken strikes again. lol
Eric @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:39PM
My guess? Complete and utter bullshit. A software solution is cheaper than a chip. End of story. The PS2 is still the number one system in the world, and will be, most likely, for a year or two, or more, to come. Cutting off that huge back-catalog pisses away the one major advantage that sony did have over MS. HUGE mistake to save a couple of bucks. And let me tell you, I would much rather have the ability to know almost all PS1/2 games will work in the PS3 then constantly having to try to remember what will and won't work in the 360 and having to check on what problems the ones that do "work" are having. Yes, xbox games on the 360 are in 720p, but PS1/2 games on the PS3 ACTUALLY WORK. Guess which system's BC ability I use more...
ANTIFANBOY @ Feb 24th 2007 12:09AM
THIS IS THE FUNNIEST SHIT EVER LOOK YOU FANBOYS, THOSE WHO KEEP BASHING THE PS3 YOU WERE NEVER GOING TO GET ONE, SO WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PISSED OFF ABOUT? THAT OTHER PEOPLE LIKE IT? LOL THE PEOPLE WHO WANT A PS3 ARE GOING TO GET ONE, "BENNY" YOU WHERE NEVER GOING TO GO GET ONE, ALL YOU FREAKING FANBOYS ARE LIKE "NO DON'T IT'S SONY THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, THEY LIE, THEIR PRODUCT SUCKS", WELL LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT A COMPANY CALLED MS,WHO LIKE TO DO COMPANY BUYOUT, CREAT MONOPOLIES AND AT THE END, NOT ENOVATE WHEN THEY HAVE THE MARKET SHARE, GO LOOK AT MACS OS10 OR OSX AND LOOK AT VISTA,AND YOU THINK SONY COPIED THE WII CONTROLLER. JUST SHUT UP FANBOYS AND DON'T BUY VISTA BUY APPLE! AND GO SCREW YOURSELVES
bootsielon @ Feb 24th 2007 12:32AM
If at least PS3 would scale those games... The only hope left is that 90% of games are compatible, and those good niche games too.
George McFly @ Feb 24th 2007 2:03AM
Who needs some tissues?
This is not new. Sony has done hardware revisions with both the PS and PS2. The PS lost the serial i/o port once the SCPH 5000 series came out. The PS2 lost the firewire or IEE1102b in the summer of 2002 i think. (not quite sure on the timeframe) They did announce in 2005 that the first PS3's will have the EE and that future revisions will have an emulator.
Why this is a big deal is beyond me.
Complaining about this makes as much sense to me as country music, and organized religion.
Completely baffled I am
carl @ Feb 24th 2007 3:19AM
Poster number 18 is interpolating me as a "viral blogger" and im not (that's paranoia!) And deeply "ironic" as I should hope to leave all the fake blogs (flogs?) to the PSP advertising team. I love my PS2(I say rather defensively!) and am playing Final Fantasy XII right now- it just got released in Europe yesterday. I am simply annoyed that Europe is seemingly getting shafted yet again... Lets look at what Ken Kuturagi had to say a little while back with regards to the matter that's annoying me:
"the PS3 will feature backwards compatibility with PS and PS2 games from day one. I'm emphasizing this because, from what I hear, there are some platforms that haven't been able to completely do this. It's costly in terms of hardware, but we'd rather [invest] firmly on compatibility from the beginning, rather than to have issues later on."
Perhaps you, poster 18, are sitting pretty with the fully intact PS3. Emulated BC is not what I really wanted. Waiting for games to go on the list? Ho-Hum. Others may say its not important, but I loved my PS2's BC functionality and am still trying to complete Vagrant Story! Now I will have to keep my old faithful PS2. Oh well no big deal. I am however, going to hold off on my purchase of PS3 though (Now my justifiable yet poorly managed anger has passed!) I will still be getting a PS3 -but sometime in the future- as, if Sony are cutting the BC functionality to enable price reduction- then I will wait until the price reduction gets passed to me rather than the Sony execs and shareholders. To do otherwise would be truly "dumb". I don't subscribe to fanboyism- I get all the consoles (well maybe not wii-lol) and the top games for each. When the price is right. I don't support or have any misplaced love for any corporations. They're all as bad as each other!
PS are you, or where you, a big fan of Alanis Morisset? as you seem to have a shared and singular misunderstanding of what actually constitutes "irony"
cabrafeliz @ Feb 24th 2007 10:38AM
@Ted Nemeth - You have to take that claim with a grain of salt. On a fixed platform like the PS3 it's unlikely they will 'upgrade' the graphics or sound chipset, because it would split the platform's installed base. Those "improved sound and graphics capabilities" may simply mean better resolution scaling (like the one offered by the more recent updates, I've read), and maybe fixing some issues with 5.1 audio over HDMI I've also read about.
The move to limited software emulation for backwards compatibility makes the purchase of the console harder to justify for all those who thought 600 wasn't that expensive, since you were basically getting a fully functional PS2 along with the PS3. Sony again changes their mind publicly and their spokespersons have to backtrack and improvise excuses, like Krazy Ken and Phil Harrison had to do when they announced the '2 flavors' strategy (after bashing and mocking microsoft a year earlier for doing that with the 360).
As a spectator, this PS3 developings are amusing, to say the least... With the severe lack of decent games (although for the european launch apparently a lot of the more well received 360 titles will come out to the PS3 too), axing the backwards compatibility will hurt...
bootsielon @ Feb 24th 2007 10:41AM
Carl:
We don't know yet what is the amount of BC with emulation. It could as well be 90%, so making an actual decision of not buying a PS3 with false assumptions is quite ridiculous, don't you think?
Besides, if both emulate the same amount of games, why would you want one with hardware emulation? That only adds temperature to the already power consuming PS3.
Let's bitch and moan when we know BC is below 80%. If something worse than that happens, I will wait even longer to own a PS3.
bootsielon @ Feb 24th 2007 10:41AM
Carl:
We don't know yet what is the amount of BC with emulation. It could as well be 90%, so making an actual decision of not buying a PS3 with false assumptions is quite ridiculous, don't you think?
Besides, if both emulate the same amount of games, why would you want one with hardware emulation? That only adds temperature to the already power consuming PS3.
Let's bitch and moan when we know BC is below 80%. If something worse than that happens, I will wait even longer to own a PS3.
Bandit @ Feb 24th 2007 10:57AM
HOLY SH*# bootsielon, YOU ARE A F* LIAR!!
Back when I was debating with you on a previous thread you stated (and I quote):
"I also barely bought a PS3, And It's fabulous.", "I also have TONS of PS2 games, so near-perfect backwards compatibility is also one thing that I find great compared to Xbox 360;"
http://playstation.joystiq.com/2007/02/17/tekken-6-screenshots-characters-spotlighted/
Now you say in post 6:
"The PS3 is (or was?) the system I want the most. I haven't bought it because I'm waiting for the system to get at least three or four games I really want."
http://playstation.joystiq.com/2007/02/23/european-ps3-sacrificing-backwards-for-forwards/
Are you gonna try and tell us your a time traveller now???
YOU JUST GOT BUSTED!! Anything you say has no validity at this point!
bootsielon @ Feb 24th 2007 11:23AM
WTF? Somebody is posting with my nickname, because I ALREADY OWN a ps3. Perhaps he was looking for a response. This is not the first time I get a nickname stolen. I used to be 'b', then 'bd', then 'boots', and now bootsielon. I had to change my nickname several times now.
So whoever the fuck you are, stop stealing my nickname.
Welshbloke @ Feb 24th 2007 11:31AM
I think the European market has every right to feel agrieved. Backwards compatability was thought to be a given now it is not and you have a similar situation to that of the 360 and waiting for software updates to allow your games to play.
To say that they should not complain or feel bitter about it is harsh. Europe will pay more for this console and Sony will pay less. I think that alone is gonna make them feel second class cizitens all over again.
hodgy @ Mar 11th 2007 7:52AM
i dont see what the problem is.the price isnt that bad when you compare the 360 basics costs and then everything you have to buy to add to it.software emulation so what as other users have said the you will end up with better looing graphics for old games.everyone should be getting excited not this doom and gloom,just wait till 6 months had passed all will be forgiven.i cant fricken wait for the console.i have a wii its ok but its reall a kids machine good familly fun but thats it.march 23 bring it on i cant waaaaaiiiiitttttttttt!