Sony's hardware change: indicative of a price drop?

by Nick Doerr { Feb 24th 2007 at 9:30PM }

With the onslaught of websites like this (no offense, me!), people have grown more and more impatient with things like release dates, prices, promise fulfillment, hype, flaming, along with numerous other things. The other day, we posted about the European PS3's getting a hardware "downgrade", meaning that there's simply less hardware and more software-involved computing. If you scroll down the comments, it's kind of funny how it starts out at "less backwards compatibility for a short while? Oh no!" and near the end people are saying "why did PS3 scrap backwards compatibility completely? We're screwed!" This is not the case.

1UP took the time to get in touch with some of Sony's henchmen and do a bit of the complaining for the web-surfing crowd. Why the lack of certain bits of hardware? Simple: "This move is a part of our cost saving measures, similar to the wide variety of cost saving measures we have applied with both the original PlayStation and with PS2. In time this leads to a reduction in the cost of manufacture and over time allows us to reduce the cost of the PS3 to consumers." Sony is doing all they can to stop selling at a loss so they can instigate a price drop. Already. Because the internet spreads pricing complaints faster than a wildfire in a rainforest.

What isn't talked about much is that the backwards compatibility issue is very temporary. Most of your PS-One titles are going to work. Recent PS2 titles will work. Older PS2 titles will be added through software updates in a matter of months. It's temporary, guys. Very temporary and not a big deal. Unless, of course, you'd rather not see a price drop for over a year...

Tags: Playstation 3, Playstation3, PS3, Sony

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Stef Geiger @ Feb 24th 2007 10:30PM

..Has anyone realized that emulation through software gives Sony the ability to do fun stuff like up-sample games to HD resolutions? In the case of the PS3, software emulation is a GOOD thing.

blk n blu @ Feb 24th 2007 10:39PM

I remember all you 360 haters talking about how "Lame" and "Gimped" xbox backward compatibility was!!!! Now look at you.....saying its a good thing!!! WOW...you are wishy washy, easily swayed, influenced, manipulated, controlled ps3 lemmings!!!

Snipo @ Feb 24th 2007 10:42PM

if backward compatibility is being done by software, doesnt that also mean they can upscale them? its just some code here and there. ps3 does that now with 480i games to 480p games correct? maybe we can get more god of war 2 like games (native 720p etc) either way the problem will be fixed by firmware updates, just like they fixed other problems.

Caramella Bongo ... how are you today? @ Feb 24th 2007 11:17PM

Just an fyi: PS1 games are done entirely by emulation on the EE chipset.. its being done by emulation today on the PS3 via the EE chipset. The difference now is that the PS1 emulation code will now run off the cell.

What is the PS1 compatibility rate? 98%? All by emulation. What was the compatibility rate when PS2 first launched. Probably not 98%.

So, morons who think that the PS2 emulation will somehow be lacking, take a breather and get back to your playing your generic FPSs on your 360.

Jeremy @ Feb 24th 2007 11:37PM

This topic (price drops) is near and dear to my heart as I am in the large crowd of those waiting for the first cut before I splurge. Here's what I think is going on behind the doors at Sony. It seems like the industry standard for the time between release and the first price drop for a new console is about 1.5 years. There is probably a large group at Sony that believes that they can stick with this. Within the corporation they are probably attributing the middling sales to the current poor selection of current games. I'll bet they are counting on March to be the month that turns things around with the release of several big titles along with the European launch. Therefore, Sony will not even consider a price drop until they have a chance to evaluate the success of these two events. This will happen by mid-summer at the earliest. Of course the pessimist would say that M$ will try to counter the March events with their 1.5 year price drop. If sales are still lagging at the end of the summer, Sony will probably consider a price drop for the holidays. I'm sure Sony would love to hold off till next spring, but if the 360 has a price cut soon Sony will probably be forced to drop as well sometime between Sept and Dec. The bottom line is that the May-June-July sales figures will tell us when the price cut happens.

sam-evans @ Feb 24th 2007 11:43PM

The Difference between software emulation on the 360 and the PlayStation 3 is that Sony actually care about their last gen games, not like micro$oft who only support Halo so they can force Halo fans to buy a 360 for the 360 Exclusive Map Pack

Sony wont do a half ass job like micro$oft and before long there will be a firmware update which makes the EE+GS almost redundant because the cell will be able to do a much better job

Don't complain that it wont get updated, because it will, Sony are frequently updating the firmware and with software there might be 3rd party updates with mods and stuff

Killer @ Feb 25th 2007 12:43AM

First, Let's get this straight on both sides:

Micro$oft and $ony, Both want money and think of money.

Second, The point of releasing a new console is this.

1.gives developers more tools
2.gives the companies more things they can do with it that they couldn't do with the last gen.
3.have people buy it.

Why is B/C so important, even better why is last gen support important? If I bought the new console why do I care about lame last gen. I have the old console do I ever play it? no, becuase I have the next-gen. If I want to play the old games, I play it on the old console. Also why do I want Last-gen support? I want them to pour as much as they can into the next-gen. It's the future, stop dwelling in the past.

Next-Gen-Gamer @ Feb 25th 2007 2:15AM

I have to go with Killer on this one. I've been asking people that for years. Why does backwards compatability matter? I suppose in the PS3's current situation, it has to matter. However, I recall hearing the same thing about the PS2.

"It's so great. It plays PS2 AND PS1 games."

One year later...

"Check out all these PS2 games I own! Oh, and I'm picking up a few more soon."

The current success of the 360 should be a HUGE sign that backwards compatability doesn't mean squat. I know everyone jumped Moore's shit for saying it, but fast-forward to the present. Microsoft has barely done anything to make backwards compatability better, and no one says anything. Where's the "I can't believe they STILL haven't added more Xbox games" remarks? They don't exist, because no one cares.

Backwards compatability should either be there or not. It shouldn't be a selling point for a console. If it is a selling point, then that console isn't doing so hot. Then again, I've never seen so many next-gen owners get so excited for a game they have to use BC to play (GoW II). And people wonder why PS3 game sales are so horrible. The PlayStation brand is currently it's own worst enemy. If the PS3 can't get out of the PS2's shadow, it'll never have a shot at catching the competition.

As for a PS3 price drop, did everyone just suddenly forget what was said less than a month ago (not to mention briefly brought up in this very blog entry)? They're trying their best to cut costs on production. That way they can actually ***make money***. If they cut costs on production AND lowered the price, wouldn't that defeat the purpose? No price drop until 2009 at the earliest.

bbharrimanhmt @ Feb 25th 2007 2:17AM

alienclay @ Feb 25th 2007 3:27AM

ahhh,.. the soothing balm of rational thought. it's nice to see some in this post and the subsequent remarks.

part of the reason people didn't complain too much about 360 BC a year later was 1. fewer people owned an original xbox
2. a lot of 360 owners are new converts who never had an xbox 1 or a library of xbox 1 games
3. the 30 is the first second console for MS, although they are dealing with expectations placed on them by a sony console, they are free to build their own set of consumer expectations based on their actions. and why would MS care about XB1 anyway, they never made a dime on the first console. if anything, the 360 IS the first xbox.

ok that aside, people want more, not less, sony set the standard in BC because before the ps2 it never existed. (lets not talk about atari 2600/5200 stuff ^_^) and when they did deliver, they were able to do it right because they had perfected manufacturing a cheap ps1 cpu. yes, after a year BC may not be all that big of an issue, but remember sony makes consoles for 10 year life spans. i think sony stopped making ps1 consoles in what 2005? During the first year or two while ps2 was picking up steam it allowed the ps1 to take on a fun portable budget console with an awesome library of games. BC helped keep the ps1 alove and helped make sure sony was getting your money. (which is what all companies want) it means i don't have to have two consoles crowed next to each other taking up valuable tv inputs, or buying an ugly source selector. it means my current game libary is still fun and not instantly out of date. iv'e lost/sold/destroyed my old ps1 and 2 ps2s but i still have all my games and i still pop in wipeout3 or tony hawk2 from time to time. it's not a selling point in and of it's self, it's a "value point." BC didn't hurt the ps2, and it won’t hurt the ps3.

finally, the ps3 has a large number of new technologies in it with a lot of room for cost reduction with economies of scale. the dvd drive in 360 only cost MS about $20 while the BD in the ps3 probably costs between 150-250 to make, kinda like dvd when dvd drives were first put out. the quick ramp up of blue diodes alone seen from launch shows that great strides can be made in manufacturing. the shift from air shipping to less costly sea based shipping, 95nm -> 65nm -> 45nm -> cpus, cooler operation, less heat management hardware like fans and heavy heat sinks, and a billion and one things i can't think of because i'm not an engineer at the biggest consumer electronics company on earth. MS knows software, and while they are not making all the manufacturing errors of XB1 they can't match sony in what they know and do in thousands of products every day, building consumer electronics. this is why i think you keep hearing about the red ring of death but almost nothing about ps3, MS has to outsource and they don't have the controls over price like sony does who makes most of their own parts.

((we will never, ever, ever, (aside from physical hardware issues like steering wheels and guitars) have to worry about perfect backwards compatibility on sony game consoles in the future. why? because the cell processor was designed from the ground up to be perfectly compatible with every other cell, as long as the number of spus and clock seed is the same or greater. read the patent. if sony can perfect emulation software, you can expect BC with ps1/2/3 and every other one. At least until they stop making game consoles with disc drives. ^_^))

Welshbloke @ Feb 25th 2007 4:10AM

The problem is two fold and I why it gets brushed away I cannot really fathom.

1. The European market will get the revised version but no price drop.
2. They will have a reduced BC list. Sony can say what they like but delivering on promises has not been a Sony strongpoint.

But you may have advantages the question is why Sony did not talk this up when announcing something which obviously was going to be taken as another kick in the teeth.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Feb 25th 2007 7:17AM

@Caramella Bongo: Wrong. The PS2 had an original Playstation built into its I/O processor. It was not software.

We'll need an offiical compatibility list to know if this is good or bad. Until then, I'm skeptical.

Hopefully, of course, existing PS3 owners will get the emulator as a download. Having the best of both worlds is definately a good thing.

Gianni Gotti @ Feb 25th 2007 8:04AM

"Recent PS2 titles will work. Older PS2 titles will be added through software updates in a matter of months."

The press release mentioned noting about "Recent" and "Older" what is the source for this?

Franky @ Feb 25th 2007 8:42AM

I don't think you guys get it. I thought the PS3 sounded great with its sizeable hard drive, multimedia functionality (watching networked video on my PC on my TV) and even Linux. I do not own a PS2. Good games are still coming out for the PS2 (God of War 2) and I haven't even had the chance to play Metal Gear Solid 3. Maybe Sony will annnounce 90% compatability for the console, which would rock, but I'll still be pissed off that my American counterparts, that pay a HELL of a lot less for their console, get near 100% compatability and I don't.
As it stands, Sony will not be seeing my money.

aka Bitter @ Feb 25th 2007 9:27AM

To those of you optimistic about PS2 back compat, I refer you to the full press release

http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=291

and this quote:
“PS3 is first and foremost a system that excels in playing games specifically designed to exploit the power and potential of the PS3 system,” said David Reeves, President of SCEE. “Games designed for PS3 offer incredible graphics quality, stunning gameplay and massively improved audio and video fidelity that is simply not achievable with PS and PS2 games. Rather than concentrate on PS2 backwards compatibility, in the future, company resources will be increasingly focused on developing new games and entertainment features exclusively for PS3, truly taking advantage of this exciting technology.”

Some additional PS2 titles will become compatible on the PS3 system through regular downloadable firmware updates, which will be made available through the PLAYSTATION®Network, from www.playstation.com or via PS3 game discs, with the first update planned for the launch date of the 23rd March 2007.

ConteZero @ Feb 25th 2007 9:48AM

Basically they are selling a PS3 at €599 (either if €1 approach $1,3), and they are selling a version without some component, talking about "we're going to emulation anyway", right ?
Well, since NTSC PS3's can switch to emulation too I find that pricing "PAL" PS3 €599 is a very bad choice, I think that they'll flop the launch (for this and for the five months delay) and I think that they'll cut the price down to €399 before regaining the market they are throwing away with this "policy".

ConteZero @ Feb 25th 2007 10:21AM

They could eventually ship these "limited functionality" PS3 as PS3LE with a slight price cut (€30-50) and charge something more for "full functionality" ones, this could be accepted by anyone.
The fact is, instead, that we've no choice than buying a console that "could" run our older games, and *hope* that the emulator will be updated (trusting Sony ?).
The question is, why are, we, the european market, by far the largest Sony base in the world, so hated ?
Not only we had to resist for five months, not only we're asked to buy only the expensive model, not only the price is higher than the USA counterpart (not to mension the JP counterpart), we have the "honor" to keep the "with a still work-in-progress emulator" version, with no choice to say "I'll pay, give me the better one".

No, thanks.

The1 @ Feb 25th 2007 11:36AM

6. The Difference between software emulation on the 360 and the PlayStation 3 is that Sony actually care about their last gen games, not like micro$oft who only support Halo so they can force Halo fans to buy a 360 for the 360 Exclusive Map Pack

Sony wont do a half ass job like micro$oft and before long there will be a firmware update which makes the EE+GS almost redundant because the cell will be able to do a much better job

Don't complain that it wont get updated, because it will, Sony are frequently updating the firmware and with software there might be 3rd party updates with mods and stuff

------------------------------------------------------------

You are totally WRONG.................

I own an X360 and PS3 and I could care less about backwards compatibility. However, for SONY to dis Microsoft for what they did and turn around to do the same is CRAZY. At least Microsoft came out from jump street and let fans know there would be issues. Sony should have done the same in the beginng.

This why people ate on SONY's case, because they are full of LIE's and Lesbian tales.

ANTIFANBOY @ Feb 25th 2007 1:42PM

NO MS has the worste BC in history, i have to connect to live,then put in the xb1 disc in,then download one emulator for 1 freaking game,as far as we know sony's is not going to work like that,Also MS said they where going to be backwords compatible, but never said by how much until near launch, SONY even said from the begining they where foing to do commentsthis, http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/05/ps3s-rumored-backcompat-solution-a-ps2-inside/#

Next-Gen-Gamer @ Feb 25th 2007 3:56PM

"SOON I WILL BUY A PS3, BUT IMAGINE I BUY IT TOMORROW AND IN 1 MONTH IT REDUCES IT PRICE FOR 100 DOLARS"

It's nice to see that no one pays attention. If you're worried about a price drop coming after you buy a PS3, then you aren't buying one "soon". Manufacturing costs come first, which means they can finally make money. Then, once they've reached a point where a price drop isn't going to put them in the hole again...you'll see a price drop. However, Sony has already stated that the earliest you'd ever see a price drop is 2009.

Chris Putnam @ Feb 25th 2007 5:21PM

"However, Sony has already stated that the earliest you'd ever see a price drop is 2009."

I think I'm gonna need a link to back that one up...

But even if they did say that, they were lying. If they follow the typical pattern, the first price drop will be in early 2008. But PS3's sales are not typical. It's extremely likely that unless sales pick up dramatically later this year (which is still possible), it will need a price drop even earlier to have a prayer of staying afloat. Personally, I'd put money on the first drop being around this summer.

If the long-term success of the machine is at stake, you better believe they'll cut the price and continue to take a loss with each sale. Naturally they're going to say "We have no price drop planned for the near future" because if they say "Yeah, we'll probably cut it in 6 months," nobody will buy it until then.

Scott Krueger @ Feb 25th 2007 5:39PM

@blk n blu
Not True. My 360 Has Crap for Backwards Compatibility.
I think this is A bad move by Sony, unless they get 99% of the Titles to be Backwards Compatible. Microsoft Blew the Backwards Compatibility. I stopped buying 360 games because I WILL Be able to move my PS3 Games to my PS4, The Next XBox Probably won't play most of my 360 Titles. Halo3 will be my LAST 360 Game Purchase, everything else will be bought where I know I can get 90% or better Backwards Compatibility.
Microsoft is 5% Backwards Compatible and it Pisses me Off.

Ted Nemeth @ Feb 25th 2007 11:01PM

My God, I have never read such pissing and moaning from supposed Euro PS3 fans, hey..wait a minute, it turns out to be another concerted campaign by 360 owners looking to spread more hate. Don't they realise their jealousy is made even more obvious by this pathetic campaign.
Look guys, go back to 360 fanboys, write a thread about how pathetic PS3 fans are, have a big chuckle with all your buddies and leave us the hell alone.

Thomas @ Feb 25th 2007 11:45PM

The bottom line is... initially PS3 owners in Europe will lose the ability to play some games, however it's not like the issue can't be remedied. Main thing is... people don't want to play PS2 titles right not besides a guitar hero, and some other recent releases. The main thing is the PS3 needs games and a quick price drop.

scott @ Feb 25th 2007 11:46PM

just a heads up antifanboy, you can download every BC update at once on the microsoft site, then download them onto a cd. Yes I own a 360, and agree the 360's BC system is lousy, but there is an alternative to what you suggested. If they would allow users to download the patch (10 megs right now), it'd make things alot easier.

Next-Gen-Gamer @ Feb 26th 2007 1:16AM

"I think I'm gonna need a link to back that one up..."

Looking for my mag, and if for some reason I'm wrong, I'll admit it. However, I will throw this link up for you.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3156655

"But even if they did say that, they were lying. If they follow the typical pattern, the first price drop will be in early 2008. But PS3's sales are not typical."

The manufacturing costs aren't "typical" either. Reducing production & manufacturing costs comes first, and Tretton doesn't sound too keen on that happening immediately (for more, see above link). I know Sony has lied about enough in the past, but I highly doubt they'd lie about NOT lowering the price.

"It's extremely likely that unless sales pick up dramatically later this year (which is still possible), it will need a price drop even earlier to have a prayer of staying afloat."

Yeah, and when that 360 price drop hits, it'll be back to square one. Harrison has already stated that a price drop will come AFTER they make a profit through cost reduction.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157212

"If the long-term success of the machine is at stake, you better believe they'll cut the price and continue to take a loss with each sale."

Well I don't believe it. I would, but with Sony's top guys staying consistent in telling us it's not going to happen, I don't buy it. I understand that a product can be successful, even if the company doesn't make a profit. However, it's your theory against what Sony has been saying for months now. If the console really is meant to be 'top-dog' for a decade, then long-term goes beyond the 360 and Wii.

"Naturally they're going to say "We have no price drop planned for the near future" because if they say "Yeah, we'll probably cut it in 6 months," nobody will buy it until then."

Perhaps I missed something, and if I did, please elaborate. However, to me, that doesn't make sense. If people are going out and buying the competition due to price, why would Sony NOT mention it? If Hirai comes out and says "expect a price drop in six months", then there's the potential for people to stop themselves from buying the competition, and hold out for the price drop. If a surprise price drop happens, people are going to care less, and those last six months were wasted. Why not let the people know? Nobody will buy it until then? Nobody is buying it NOW.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Feb 26th 2007 4:57AM

It's worth pointing out that Microsoft doesn't have access to some of nVidia's technology documentation, so emulation is far more difficult for them to acheive. They have to reverse engineer a lot of stuff. (It's their own damn fault, though. They should have been smarter with their license).

Sony does not have this problem, so it's wrong to assume that the PS2 software emulation will be terrible. Again, it all depends just how "reduced" the compatibility will be. It doesn't matter what's in the box -- the results are what counts.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Feb 26th 2007 5:13AM

Next-Gen Gamer: "If Hirai comes out and says "expect a price drop in six months", then there's the potential for people to stop themselves from buying the competition, and hold out for the price drop."

You think people have that kind of patience? That might work if a price drop was coming in one month. Otherwise, no, people would seek alternatives.

Besides, the current attitude is that backwards compatibility is worth the price. Until Sony proves that PS2 compatibility is rock-solid, a price reduction isn't likely to stir any interest in the new systems. Sony people aren't as forgiving regarding lack of functionality as the Nintendo community. That's what happens when you court an audience by flaunting features not typical of a game console, like movies and the ability to run Linux.

Welshbloke @ Feb 26th 2007 5:59PM

An interesting article popped at http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23008 and it made me wonder. Has Sony really managed to get massive numbers of these modified consoles to the Euro market? I have checked all the usual haunts for online UK purchases and can find nobody who has filled their quota plus non bundled deals are avaialble from a number of the main players.

At the moment it looks like if you want a PS3 for launch day you are sure to get one. This will make this the smoothest launch I can remember (boring too). All the Sony faux paus asside I still expected massive demand. As the article pointed out damned if you do and damned if you do not. Maybe I am just sceptical but the Wii is still tough as nutz to get and they had a pretty big launch.