Define "How you killed your brand" for us, we'll define "you're wrong"
So, we've received oodles of submissions of the Joystiq post regarding a YouTube video where a 360 advocate, naturally, bashes the PS3 through song. People asked "defend us!" and "let's take 'em down!". Okay. We'll try. First, we have to tip our hat to the creator of the video. It is pretty funny and a decent rendition of one of The Fray's songs. However, it's riddled with audio edits, out-of-context charts and quotes, and blatant fanboyism. Since I don't really like fanboyism (I try to stay objective, but also enjoy setting some flame traps every now and then), we'll go through the video as best we can and say "no, no, no... okay maybe, no" to whatever and ever. Anyway, this is an extremely large rebuttal and we'd like to direct you to the continued link."December 12, 2006: Sony claims Wii is "more of a novelty" despite Wii sales doubling PS3 sales". Really? That's fine. The sales weren't quite double at that point. Both were still in extremely limited quantities, albeit the Wii was able to accept more pre-orders. If the quote was from February 2007, then yes, sales are more than doubled against the PS3. Novelty items do sell fast and furious for a while, though, then trail off. Is the Wii a novelty? After we try out true games and not sets of minigames that work well, we'll see. But the Wii is cheap, it's fun for everyone, it's being marketed across the internet as the "it" item for this year. It's got a lot of backing. The only backing Sony's getting is into a corner, with a knife in its back.
The chart depicting "absolute console prices" clearly shows that the PS3 isn't the most expensive console released, as claimed. If the chart weren't so blurry, we'd know if under the heading it said "inflation taken into consideration" or "inflation not taken into consideration". Regardless, the PS3 costs marginally more than the Sega Saturn and whatever the CD-L is. It costs less than the 3DO and NeoGeo -- both are highly acclaimed cult systems. So is the Saturn. Look on eBay. They're respected. Bad chart. Next.
"Microsoft shoots for the moon. Sony shoots for the sun." Sure, Ken Kutaragi certainly has... a way with words, but is this really false? We don't know yet. We've been to the moon (meaning stuff we've seen before, Microsoft) and the PS3 is chillin' there with you right now, but in a few years, Sony will create a gigantic slingshot on the moon and hurl itself right towards Helios, the sun god. Does it not take longer to get to the sun than the moon? Anyone can get to the moon (figuratively). It's harder, costs more, and takes more time to get to the sun. Get it now? Stop taking quotes out of context. Next.
"4D Graphics". Whatever. It's a facetious claim, since 4D doesn't exist in this universe. Using it against Sony is just as facetious and useless.
The XBox Live comparisons... oh, lord... of course. How long has Live been around, growing and maturing, getting updates, repairs, tweaks, and most importantly, created by a company that has pretty much built the computer/world-wide-web world as we know it today? Sony is doing what it can and it's got a pretty competent service -- plus it's free. No size limit on PS-Store files... that's how we can get stuff like Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection in 1080p downloaded. They've got a point with finding friends in games. We'd like that option... but we don't know what's coming in the update in March.
Blu-ray that you don't need? Shut up. Why would you show the 360 with the HD-DVD drive attached to it if you don't care about next-gen formats? If you want to keep playing games on DVD's, you're going to be pretty sorry in a few years when Sony launches their Blu-rocket from your moon base towards the sun. Isn't it nice how using the quotes you used against Sony proves more effective in debunking your lyrical claims?
They use a chart compiled by Kotaku of all blogs (clearly the most reliable and trustworthy...) indicating selling prices of the PS3 on eBay -- averaging well over $2000 before launch and dropping to a $724 average at the end of December. Averages are funny things, you see. Were these based on medians, means, ranges, did they use statistics or basic division? Regardless, part of the lowered average over the course of a month was the saturation of eBay. There were so many PS3's being auctioned there was a large public outcry against these scalpers, so people stopped being stupid and started bidding smart. Sony still got the money from the initial sales, so what does this chart prove anyway? That consumers got sick of scalpers? Nice try.
The Halo 3 against Killzone 2 montage... since this is clearly from a 360 standpoint, do you really think they'd be opening up to another game that was foolishly titled a "Halo-killer"? Saying that Killzone sucked and flashing scores that, in all fairness, aren't necessarily low, is pretty foolish itself. If a game is lower than 5 (5 is "average", you know), then it's not that great. If it's beyond a 7, it at least merits a rental.
Using the Phil Harrison voice-over... while funny for about five seconds, you soon realize it's a clipped and looped audio file completely taken out of context. Pretty poorly. It brings nothing to the table except you like to fiddle with audio files. Good job.
They used another quote from Krazy Ken Kutaragi, but it's cut into two parts and since I don't know if it really was one quote or a mangled edit of two different quotes mashed together, we're going to skip over it. The 360 was released when the PS2 was still at its prime, anyway. So the 360 did have to compete with it. That's how competition works.
Finally, "How you killed your brand" is blatantly false. These guys obviously believe Sony is based solely in the console market. Their PC's are selling very well (thanks for the crappy Vista, Microsoft...) and the Bravia TV's are making up for the slack in other Sony-realms. Sony hasn't killed its brand. It's stumbling, but death is a far exaggeration. We love jumping to conclusions when a system has only been out for a few months too, but let's be realistic and let time judge.
I think that really about covers it. Overall, it seems like another attempt at viral marketing on Microsoft's behalf, whether it was planned and planted or by an overly-zealous fan that hates Sony so much they'd sit down and do this. Hmm, which seems more likely? Whatever the case, that's our rebuttal and we're stickin' to it. Feel free to add your own two cents. We're going to continue building that slingshot so we can aim for the sun. See you next-gen, everyone!









Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Trogdor @ Feb 26th 2007 12:45PM
Wow! It was an OK article until you got into the Microsoft Conspiracy Theory at the end. Is it so hard to believe that some guy with some extra time could come up with this song.
I agree with most of the article, Quotes were taken way out of context and graphs were too grainy to really see what they were really showing.
Was it a funny song? I would have to say yes. Blu-Ray Movies are looking better and better everyday. I might have to buy me one of those subsidized Sony Blu-Ray players afterall.
ndoerr @ Feb 26th 2007 12:49PM
@ Trogdor -- oh, I know the viral marketing thing was a stretch =D. I'm going to add a link to a previous post I wrote on a similar topic. Thanks for reminding me!
j @ Feb 26th 2007 1:18PM
Major damage control.
ndoerr @ Feb 26th 2007 12:56PM
@ Jeff -- we embrace it. First paragraph: "It is pretty funny and a decent rendition of one of The Fray's songs."
Jeremy @ Feb 26th 2007 1:08PM
I got curious about that chart too, so I ran a google search for "absolute console prices" and a PDF version of that chart was the first hit. Inflation is NOT taken into account. I was really surprised the price of consoles has been that flat.
OrganicShadow @ Feb 26th 2007 1:31PM
Formal request for at least 1 scene in the Xbox version of the video to be created:
Photo(s): Xbox360 Premium package contents list without wifi. Photo of wifi adapter for $100.
Audio: MTV 360 premiere with announcer promising wifi "out of the box"
GRT @ Feb 26th 2007 1:44PM
I cry for the time you wasted in composing this post, Nick. You could've spent that time on something so much more positive & productive, as you've demonstrated on this blog so many times.
I haven't watched the video, but over the past few months it has become clear to me that paying attention to the system haters (ALL system haters; as a hardcore gamer I own and enjoy all 3 current-gen consoles) only feeds them what they're after, and saps your own energy.
dsr7997 @ Feb 26th 2007 1:49PM
@GRT
I agree 100% with your post. Nick needs to stop worrying about what some system hater is doing and focus on delivering PS3 stories that are positive and that matter.
Gianni Gotti @ Feb 28th 2007 4:05AM
No question that Peter Moores minions are behind this.
The creator of the video never answers the question of why the PS2 is outselling the Xbox 360 month after month, the PSP is outselling it as well and I believe the PS3 has outsold it some months.
If Sony's brand is dead then the Xbox 360 is putrid and petrified.
Chris Putnam @ Feb 26th 2007 2:35PM
"Regardless, the PS3 costs marginally more than the Sega Saturn and whatever the CD-L is. It costs less than the 3DO and NeoGeo -- both are highly acclaimed cult systems. So is the Saturn. Look on eBay. They're respected. Bad chart. Next."
I'm a PS3 fan... nevertheless, I have to point out that you neglected to mention that every one of those consoles was also a colossal failure. "Respected cult system that lost us millions" isn't really the outcome Sony is after for the PS3.
SfGanja @ Feb 26th 2007 5:23PM
Define "How you killed your brand" for us, we'll define "you're wrong". The most important part of an article is its title. By reading this title, I thought the article would actually have debunked most, if not all the claims made by the song. Nick D, your article really falls flat when trying to rebuttal. Its called PS3fanboy, a PS3fanboy would have jumped over the moon to discredit what is being said in the video. You could have attacked MS more on the fact that when PS3 store didnt have a d/l limit, MS copied Sony in breaking up its own limit to be on the same page as the SOny store. To be fair, the article is sopposed to poke fun at Microsoft while being funny to the reader. It fails. Does this site speak for all of the PS3 owners willing to drop $600 dollars on a system that doesn't have a clear future, no. PS3fanboys are heavily blind towards the Sony machine, this site needs to reach and preach to these characters. PS3fanboys are in hiding right now due to the terrible PR statements, and shitty lackluster games, and unjustification of the price of the console. What they need is the constent propaganda on why they choose the right system. Nick D, you listening?
Devindra @ Feb 26th 2007 11:00PM
Wow, for once I'd like to see a PS3 journalist not try to avoid the fact this whole thing is a giant frackstorm. All of your points are overly defensive and defy logic in many cases.
1) I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers on the wii not outselling the PS3 until Feb 2007. This is the original article (http://www.digg.com/gaming_news/Sony_Claims_Wii_Is_More_of_a_Novelty_Despite_Wii_Sales_Doubling_PS3_Sales) and those numbers make sense to me, especially given the PS3's ultra low production output.
2)You're saying the pricing of the PS3 is a good thing because it's similar to the Neo Geo, 3D0, and Saturn?! There is no witty response to this. Seriously.
3) Finally, whatever you do don't defend Bluray. It's a prime example of Sony's corporate greed, it was never something that the PS3 required. You keep saying "Wait until you need that Bluray space!", but seriously, how long will that be? And MOST people don't need Bluray movies because they don't have HDTVs. Sony wanted to control the HD disc market and saw that including it in the PS3 was the easiest way to penetrate the market.
BR is the problem with the PS3 because it was the main reason initial production was so low, and the main reason the price is so high. Without Bluray, the PS3 would have been competitively priced with the 360 and Sony would have avoided much of their bad press. Honestly the way I see it the inclusion of Bluray is indefensible. I have yet to see a reasonable non-fanboyish justification for it--
KilgoreTrout XL @ Feb 26th 2007 3:28PM
I strongly disagree!
The fourth dimension is alive and well, no matter your particular opinion as to what the 4th dimension actually is. ;)
In more relevant news, that was a pretty funny song. Maybe a PS3 owner should write one about how my 360 keeps breaking.
hoyaboyd @ Feb 27th 2007 5:29PM
""4D Graphics". Whatever. It's a facetious claim, since 4D doesn't exist in this universe. Using it against Sony is just as facetious and useless." Really, last time I checked, time is still running. So really do live in 4D in the universe. Way to go Nick. Guess someone fail high school physics.
Jas @ Feb 26th 2007 3:44PM
What's a bigger joke.. the PS3 or the tools who blindly defend it??
Insomniac @ Feb 27th 2007 8:52AM
Well, you could say the 360 cost microsoft 1.5 BILLION
considering thats what they just got sued for.
Pedro @ Feb 26th 2007 4:09PM
I made sure to make an extra long post, just to show you how annoying it is.
And once again, PS3 fanboy(s) miss the point and look stupid.
“Since I don't really like fanboyism” Do you even know the name of your site? Hell, this site claimed the reason VF5 didn’t look as good as the BS target renders was because it was also on the 360. You guys are all about the fanboyism.
Regarding the pricing chart, he was referring to this generation. The ps3 costs the most out of this gen. And all of those consoles with ‘cult followings’ that you mentioned were unmitigated failures.
And you must be drinking deep of the sony kool aid to think that the 3DO was EVER a respected system. It was an overteched, unplayable mess. And it is CD-I, not CD-L. Nice knowledge there. The charts isn’t bad, it is simply showing straight facts. Console priced as ridiculously high as the ps3 tend not to do well.
“We've been to the moon (meaning stuff we've seen before, Microsoft) and the PS3 is chillin' there with you right now, but in a few years, Sony will create a gigantic slingshot on the moon and hurl itself right towards Helios, the sun god. Does it not take longer to get to the sun than the moon? Anyone can get to the moon (figuratively). It's harder, costs more, and takes more time to get to the sun”
Actually, Sony hasn’t reached the mon yet since it has yet to MEET let alone exceed the standard set by MS. And don’t pull this “you are buying potential,” bullshit. The consoles are about equal in power. It has been shown time and time again. There is no magic repository of extra power in the ps3 that will make it next-next gen or anything like that. Deal with it.
“Whatever. It's a facetious claim, since 4D doesn't exist in this universe. Using it against Sony is just as facetious and useless.” You don’t know what facetious means do you? Kutaragi made a claim. A bullshit claim that no one could live up to. That’s part of the fucking song, you tool.
“The XBox Live comparisons... oh, lord... of course. How long has Live been around, growing and maturing, getting updates, repairs, tweaks, and most importantly, created by a company that has pretty much built the computer/world-wide-web world as we know it today? Sony is doing what it can and it's got a pretty competent service -- plus it's free. No size limit on PS-Store files... that's how we can get stuff like Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection in 1080p downloaded. They've got a point with finding friends in games. We'd like that option... but we don't know what's coming in the update in March.”
That’s the point. Sony went on about how PNP would be the live killer and it turns out to be almost as bad as online on the ps2. I swear, Sony fanboys are the only group in history that will use the competition being years more advanced as an excuse. It isn’t Sony’s fault the online isn’t as good. Microsoft set the bar too high! Tough luck. Rise to the challenge or don’t.
Don’t get me started on the Bluray bit. For someone who claims to not like fanboys, you seem to exhibit all the signs. Bluray won’t allow for better games. Most games will be able to fit on a DVD9 unless they use vast amounts of last gen FMV, (much like resistance).
About Ebay: Don’t even try to spin it as a positive. If people wanted the ps3 bad enough, they would pay anything for it, like what happened with the wii and the 360. The fact that people were returning ps3’s to stores and that stores weren’t sold out of them shows that the ps3 suffered form reduced demand. Why buy a $600 system if a $400 system is superior in nearly everyway?
Killzone: Sony tried selling killzone as a halo killer. Thus any flack coming its way because of this is their fault. You should also know that the scored the guy showed were actually quite high. A great many killzone reviews were 7 and under. Some went as low as 3 out of ten.
The Harisson voice over is INTENDED to be obvious. It is EXAGGERATIION FOR COMIC EFFECT.
I’m not even going to bother with the rest. It just spirals further and further down into paranoid delusion. You’ve proven once agian why sony fanboys are such a laughing stock. You have no sense of humour, an inflated sense of self importance, and you are perfectly willing to split as many hairs as you need in order to to make your console seem better than it is.
Doc Adams @ Feb 26th 2007 4:18PM
Great Article. I need to clear something up though. I wrote the song with literally NO AGENDA. I was bored and thought I would try to be funny. Phil Harrison seemed like a decent muse to that end.
I have nothing to do with Microsoft.
SECOND: The video was done by some guy that snagged the mp3 off of the Gamercast website and put his own, rather rudimentary video montage together. He's apologized, but after a quarter of a million views, how can I be mad at him. It never dawned on me to make a video out of this.
So, as long as you believe me, conspiracy theory debunked.
You guys have put a LOT more thought into this than I did even making it, which I must say is flattering. I'm sorry it came out looking like fanboy-ism. It's really just silliness that turned into an overnight sensation.
Thanks for the views and the hits. Keep up the good work!
Doc Adams
humpty @ Feb 26th 2007 4:23PM
The only people who care about shit like this are under 20 years old and have nothing more significant to care about in their pathetic lives. Seriously, all this name calling is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Klip @ Feb 26th 2007 4:37PM
Pedro hit just about every nail on the head.
You poor Sony fans sure are defensive!
And just about EVERYONE outside of the Sony fanboy world knows that the PS3 is trash.
Don't fight it kids.
Jordan @ Feb 26th 2007 4:32PM
Pedro...About your comment with the PS3s being returned to stores and actually being in stock you're not realizing something. After Christmas people have spent a lot of money and are not going to pay 600 for the PS3 right away. Therefore there are PS3s actually in stock.
Mogul218 @ Feb 26th 2007 4:34PM
Nick Doerr, you just got owned by the songwriter! LMFAO!!!!
fox619_master @ Feb 26th 2007 4:54PM
funny vid, ps3 is too expensive i would never pay that much for a console when i can get a decent computer for the same price.
Arno @ Feb 26th 2007 6:06PM
Pedro FTW!
Bored @ Feb 27th 2007 8:01AM
This post was a waste of time.
It sounded too serious over something as unimportant as a simple humorous video. As a result, nobody will take it seriously. Unfortunately, it didn't even manage to be funny.
And no, I'm not a MS fanboy, otherwise I wouldn't have come here. I stop by at PS3fanboy and PSPfanboy for a few reasons - one of them being amusing myself.
Killer @ Feb 26th 2007 8:27PM
Man you guys seriously have problems or something. It is made to be funny. It's funny. You just went and destoried the funny by being technical. Why do you people (360/Wii/Ps3 fanboys)make just the tiniest joke into a full fledged Fanboy hate war? Just enjoy what you bought, you don't have to defend it. god, If someone made a funny video about the 360 I wouldn't go indepth with the damn thing. It's like trying to go indepth with the joke "why did the chicken cross the road?" Everyone has their opinions. PR makes mistakes all the time. Just Drop it.
Joop @ Feb 26th 2007 8:49PM
Wow.
Nick, that's really a new low in pathetic. It's like a fat kid who gets picked on at school and goes home to show his star wars figures his power point presentation detailing why the insults aren't accurate.
Seriously, when you get burned you retort with a burn of equal or greater humorous value. You don't write up a list of why the burn is realistically inaccurate.
Ninegauger @ Feb 26th 2007 10:51PM
Uhh... so you watched a Youtube video and got really angry but you don't even have a counter Youtube video? I mean in all fairness it's not like you have any games to play... so make a counter video and then talk.
Plus some of your rebuttles are pretty weak I thought...
You're not really the target audience anyway.
Diddy @ Feb 28th 2007 5:51PM
I kinda like this post as until now I had not heard about the video. Gave me somthing to read at work :) . The end of it all though who realy cares. I dont its just good to read. Funny how there are so many negative replies to this post though, is it because all you 360fanboys have nothing to do but read other forums. No need to get up in arms im just teasing ya.
I know the ps3 is a big price, with the price up to $1200 in little New Zealand it is a lot to ask. But I will pick one up just as I did the Playstation, PSOne, PS2, PS2 slim and PSP (my fav so far). Its not that Im a fanboy of such I just didnt like what the Xbox, 360 or nintendo had, Sure I played Halo that was cool and Gears of War also but im not buying a system for one game. Maybe that dose make me a fanboy. But your right all this post and video dose is add fuel to the fire, and now iv added mine. Happy reading guys.
Chris @ Feb 27th 2007 2:02AM
Okay, everyone already replied to most of the ridiculous bullshit in this post, so I'll just tackle this wondrous nugget:
"The only backing Sony's getting is into a corner, with a knife in its back."
Nick, I think it's funny that this sentence was written in the same article where you claimed to "hate fanboys." What kind of "fanboy hater" suggests that Sony DESERVES allegiance by claiming that some people are stabbing them in the back? Sony released an overpriced, overhyped, and overpowered machine with no good games. If you lose touch with gamers (much like how you've lost touch with reality), you deserve to be dead last in the console war.
And please stop painting Sony as some kind of underdog. They are quite the opposite; an arrogant company that is out of touch with the market it previously dominated and over-confident in its brand name. It backfired big time, and hopefully they'll learn the lesson for PS4.
Maybe next time they will concentrate on making a decent system and securing great exclusives, instead of using their gaming console as a Trojan Horse for their media format aspirations. I'd say using your fan base to covertly establish your new Blu Ray media format is as close to a back-stabbing as anything that's gone on this generation.
And not packing in HDMI cables was a pretty clever twist of the knife.
samik @ Feb 27th 2007 10:48AM
"Sony released an overpriced, overhyped, and overpowered machine with no good games."
Sony keeps repeating they want to future proof PS3. Maybe they took a wrong turn - making it too expensive to begin with. But notice - MS has made NO such commitment. The PS2 lasted 8 years, the xbox barely 4. Is a console with a 4-year life for 399 better than another that lasts 8 years for 499-599?
"If you lose touch with gamers"
Thats where you lose credibility. So gamers WANT a poorly built console that fails repeatedly, want to get gouged (guess how many will overpay for a bigger hard disc), pay 250USD/5 years extra for multiplayer (Fine,Live being better, but can you name ONE other console/PC system which demands you to pay for basic MP?)
"No games", "Maybe next time they will concentrate on...great exclusives, instead of ..."
What do you call lair, heavenly, Motorstorm, RFOM, Killzone, ratchet, MGS4, FF? Maybe MS should try making some good exclusives other than the next generic shooter, instead of trying to poach PS ones?
360 had ZERO good games for six months and ZERO good exclusives for a year. PS3 has R:FOM (the hype for Gears hid the fact that, other than GoW, it was better than all other 360 games)
Naaiif @ Feb 27th 2007 11:54AM
Ok so maybe it was stupid to reply with such seriousness to a funny song that was just intended to make us laugh, i did find it funny, well the Phil harrison bit anyway - but the people ripping on Nick for doing this are actually alot worse.
Take your own advice and don't take Nick's response serious either, it's really only meant to give closure to the biggest of Sony fanboys anyway.
RetepNamenots @ Feb 27th 2007 12:43PM
And why are you do damn defensive!?
And you say you're not a fanboy..
Daniel T Lawson @ Feb 27th 2007 6:54PM
The video was increadibly funny and I'm sure that was the point. I think that with a little more effort the video maker could have done better though.
shaoron @ Feb 27th 2007 8:09PM
you know what's ironic? this article using the image from a nintendo DS/GBA game... lol :p
to all ps3 fans... granted the PS3 is curently the most powerful console system... but the hefty price tag is a big blow to it's own market... sorry.. but raw power is not enough...
cheese @ Feb 28th 2007 2:50AM
The REAL funny fact for everyone to consider is that Sony's only real competition is the PS2.
Sony is content to bide it's time while it gets the majority of desirable Japan-developed exclusives.
Chad @ Mar 2nd 2007 6:52PM
From somebody who hates "fanboyism" there is an awful lot of it here. What a waste of text. You obviously were hurt by and took offense to this video. Public displays like this do nothing more than make you look bad. You probably should've left this one alone Nick.
Ryan Skorich @ Mar 3rd 2007 1:36AM
lol @ samik
"The PS2 lasted 8 years"
Yeah. I remember the launch vividly. Back in the 90's.
It's been out for what, just over six years?
Peter @ Apr 7th 2007 7:02PM
You guys should lighten up - I thought it was pretty funny, and I own a PS3.
PS3fanboy1337 @ Mar 9th 2007 2:56AM
OMG, Nick D, you totally kicked MS's ass with those comebacks!
now i know for sure i'm hooked in the slingshotting PS3 (The Sun God FTW), too bad i gotta wait like, 7 years before it'll bloom. It kinda reminds me of when i wanted to have sex for the first time, i had to wait 7 years for that too. ><
\^^/ Peace out boyfriends!
Ty @ Mar 21st 2007 11:06PM
"Some cannot resist the power of the SUN. It shall consume them first, magnificently. Then the rest mercilessly"