Sony launches new dev tech -- dubbed Edge

by Nick Doerr { Mar 1st 2007 at 5:00PM }

That's right -- the complaints about the PS3 dev-kits and all being really limited and tough to work with must have been grounded in some kind of fact, or else Sony wouldn't have released an all new set of tools for developers working on PS3 titles. This new kid, called PlayStation 3 Edge has "been put together by three first-party technology teams within Sony, the WWS Europe Advanced Technology Group, WWS America ICE team (a technology group based at Naughty Dog that specialises in graphics systems and tools for the PlayStation 3), and WWS America Tools and Technology group."

This new thingie is described by Sony: "rather than an overarching engine, these teams have chosen to create specialized systems that demonstrate best practices of SPU and RSX utilization." So, is this a step in the right direction for PS3 software development? We submit that it certainly is. With better technology and tools made available to developers, not only will their game development costs decrease, but games will begin to look better and better, do more and more at once. Maybe next-gen titles will drop to $50 as a standard in a year or so. Oh, wait... the Wii already has them at that price. Well, those'll drop to $40 and below at that point. Pricing wars are fun.

Tags: Playstation 3, PlayStation 3 Edge, Playstation3, Playstation3Edge, PS3, Sony

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

bmac @ Mar 1st 2007 5:27PM

I keep thinking of ps2, and the way so many developers were apparently complaining about working with it.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/ps2vspc.ars

Look at it now.
Once they get used to it and get the tools (like this) that they need, the ps3 will astound.

drawallday @ Mar 1st 2007 6:10PM

That is awesome. Soon there will be no excuse for crybaby developers.

Darko @ Mar 1st 2007 6:16PM

So Sony is getting developers the tools they need.... after the console has been released.... way to go Sony. It's a wonder why theres so much "demand" for their system... and no surplus... Eh, I guess by the time I buy one there might be a few games worth playing. Sorry for the rant, pent up sony bashing, needed to be released. Honestly I dont hate sony, they have just disappointed me over the past couple of years.

bmac @ Mar 1st 2007 6:28PM

@ Darko
Do you really believe that the developer kits provided at the start of a system's life are anything like the ones that are around at the end? This was obviously the result of what they've learned already from working with the hardware, and I'd be surprised if this is the last update/new kit that developers would receive. In fact, I'd be appalled if it was. They evolve, just as the games do.

Darko @ Mar 1st 2007 6:45PM

I know they grow and evolve over the life of a product, however that does not excuse the fact that their current dev kits are difficult to use. Havent heard any developers complain about M$ dev kits. ;)

simcha @ Mar 1st 2007 6:58PM

Darko: I would be worried if M$ hasn't had any complaints. It makes me wonder how far they can push the 360 and what's left to unlock. Personally I would rather see Devs struggle and complain because they're forced to look at things different and learn as they go along. If it's easy, why would devs for M$ try to push the console?

Drew @ Mar 1st 2007 7:00PM

I'm afraid I don't approve of this post, and I'm going to have to ask you to revoke the story, lest I sever all ties with you and your orginization.

=P

SuicideNinja @ Mar 1st 2007 7:07PM

"Look at it now.
Once they get used to it and get the tools (like this) that they need, the ps3 will astound."

It needs to start astounding, soon. I don't know anyone in my area that is happy with their PS3.

Imagine how much less effort the original Xbox took in development for equal or better results (vs the PS2). With the PS3, these development improvements are nothing short of necessary. Like Nintendo has learned (but still doesn't seem to know what to do about it), Sony needs to make developers/publishers happy for the product to move forward.

humpty @ Mar 1st 2007 7:13PM

The same shit went down with PS2... devs complaining that it was too hard to program for, that XBOX was basically a PC and was a freaking God send to program for, yadayadada..

Do you think a title like God of War 2 would have been possible in the launch window.. or perhaps devs learned how to program and got better tools.

Sam D @ Mar 1st 2007 8:01PM

Are you guys gonna get round to posting the fallout from the Kotaku blacklisting or just wash over it with this kind of cack...?

Couldn't help but notice the appalling Blu Ray release list took prominence over the How You Killed Your Brand vid last week. Don't try and hide from these things.

doglet @ Mar 1st 2007 8:13PM

"It needs to start astounding, soon. I don't know anyone in my area that is happy with their PS3."

this is exactally the problem, the ps3 cost more but isn't better than a 360. only the early adopters are willing to pay $5-600 and because so few consoles are out in the field, game sales are tiny. that combined with the dificulty associated with developing games for a new console means fewer games which means fewer people will buy the console.

sony would have been better off delying the ps3 until they could sell it for $400, there were some good games and the online service didnt suck.

im just glad that im not an early adoptor

Darko @ Mar 1st 2007 8:28PM

@simcha

Ease of use with dev kits has less to do with pushing the system to the edge, it has more to do with development time and cost. You make it sound like the 360 has been pushed to the edge and ps3 has barely scratched the surface. Now as I see it, the PS3 and 360 (from a graphical standpoint) are pretty equal. If you disagree then go read this
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1
However, I doubt you could comprehend much of it. So the 360 will hit its peak graphically sooner than the PS3... that would be a good thing for 360 owners and it would be a good thing for the quality of the games. Oh and last tid bit, the 360 gpu is very similar to the DX10 ATI R600 that hasnt been released yet (however the 360s gpu does not support dx10) the PS3 GPU is similar to the Nvidia 7800GTX

Xenos > RSX

Cheers!

bootsielon @ Mar 1st 2007 8:32PM

There is so much going on with Sony and the PS3 today, I don't know why a PS3 fanboy site isn't reporting on the news.

ndoerr @ Mar 1st 2007 9:26PM

@ Sam D & bootsielon -- It's not that I'm washing over pieces of news. This is the first time I've been able to get to my computer since, oh, 12:30PM. I do the work I can when I can. I can't afford to sit at my computer screen all day to keep up with the news (stay tuned for some hiring practices in motion), but when I am here, I try to bring everything I find of interest.

Dolla Dolla @ Mar 1st 2007 9:59PM

Me thinks they are a little slow on the uptake, bootsielon.

Drew @ Mar 1st 2007 10:14PM

Everyone ignored my joke. Drew is sad now. =(

bmac @ Mar 1st 2007 11:08PM

"5. I know they grow and evolve over the life of a product, however that does not excuse the fact that their current dev kits are difficult to use. Havent heard any developers complain about M$ dev kits. ;)"

It would be great if all the news from developers was about how making a game for the ps3 is super easy, but at the same time, we heard the same things about the ps2. They have to use the programs before they'll be able to make them better is all I'm saying, so acting like the fact that the ps3 is harder to work with at this point in time doesn't mean a whole lot in the long run. If it was so hard we were hearing about games being cancelled, then I'd be worried. And if we weren't hearing that Sony was sending out new kits, then again, would be reason to worry. How is Sony sending out improved tools a bad thing? Because we don't hear about MS doing the same thing?

Darko @ Mar 2nd 2007 12:04AM

I never said it was a bad thing, in fact it is good news. I was just making a smart ass remark about how its too little too late. And it does make a difference this time around, companies have had over a year of extra time to work with M$'s dev kits (which are easier to use). And games are getting moved to the 360 rather than canceled ;) And im sure microsoft releases updates to their dev kits, theirs just isnt shitty enough to require a whole new tool set.

Cheers!

bmac @ Mar 2nd 2007 12:41AM

I would argue semantics with you about moved vs ported, but that's business more than development problems anyway.
There are just a lot of parallels to the ps2, even down to the dreamcast having been available for a year with happy developers, and complaints about the ps2. I mean, check out some news from back then;
http://news.com.com/Dreamcast+sales+climb+on+eve+of+troubled+PlayStation+2+launch/2100-1040_3-246759.html
Honestly, looking at stuff like this, it sounds like a whole lot of the same doom and gloom we hear now. I've tried finding a couple of articles further detailing the ps2 developer complaints, but few of them go beyond "we've heard from so-and-so it sucks..." So many of these things are hard to get concrete quotes and informtion about, then and now.

Extinction @ Mar 2nd 2007 1:08AM

"Havent heard any developers complain about M$ dev kits. ;)"

Look harder. Every single one of them has complained about the lack of space on DVD for example.

"I don't know anyone in my area that is happy with their PS3."

Again, look harder.
I have Full Auto 2 for example, and it's leaps and bounds better than the 360 version. For one, not one PS3 game has v sync tearing that plagues almost every 360 game, including GoW.

scott @ Mar 2nd 2007 1:14AM

Interesting article bmac, except wasn't ps2 selling a helluva lotter better than the ps3 is right now? 600 dollars is still a very very large chunk of change for a majority of people. And it's no longer trying to just be a video game console. Ps2's popularity grew so high because it was a phenomenal gaming system, it had a game for every age, and every type of game possible. Sports games, shooting games, RPG's, and quickly little fun games like katamari for the more casual players. But the PS3 is an entirely different beast, 80% of the ps2 user base probably cares less about half the features on the ps3. I work in video game retail, I know the ps2 crowd very very well. I explain blu-ray, they look at me dumbfounded.

And to all of the people saying "its ok, developers said the same thing about ps2 at first!", you guys all seem to forget that the price for developing games has risen SIGNIFICANTLY. It was possible to turn out a few crappy titles during the ps2 days and not really take any major loses. This sort of thing doesn't happen anymore, which is why the price for games has slowly risen.

Darko @ Mar 2nd 2007 1:38AM

@Extinction

Um, DVD size != Dev kit issue.... and if you can fit a game the size of Mass Effect on to one Disc... who gives a flying rip. Most games these days dont use FMVs they use in game clips... And I own Gears and a bunch of other games, the only one ive seen that has v sync issues is Saints row. And I believe I saw Resistance suffer from some weird glitches at my friends house. Try not to compare a lame game like full auto to Gears...

And small fact... Full Auto 2 is on the PS3 only Xbox 360 has Full Auto 1....so yea I would hope the second one would be better...

And again, this is PS3 vs 360 not PS2 vs Xbox or PS2 vs Dreamcast.... times change and its a whole different ball game.

-Peace!

bmac @ Mar 2nd 2007 2:35AM

I've been trying to find numbers for the ps2 in it's first year, but it doesn't seem to be readily available. A lot of what I've found... again, sounds similar to right now.
"The PS2 launch seemed unimpressive and gaffe-prone, compared to the well-planned launch of the Sega Dreamcast, which was making a genuine attempt to woo developers and which had better launch titles.
Yet, the PS2 initially sold well partly on the basis of the strength of the PlayStation brand and its backwards compatibility, selling over 900,000 units in the first weekend in Japan. This allowed the PS2 to tap the large install base established by the PlayStation - another major selling point over the competition. Later, Sony gained steam with new development kits for game developers and more PlayStations for consumers.
Many analysts predicted a close 3-way matchup between the PS2 and competitors Microsoft's Xbox and the Nintendo GameCube (which was the cheapest of the three consoles and had an open market of games)."
The handful of numbers I've found, not even actual sold numbers:
On August 1, 2000, five months after the system's release in Japan, Sony announced it had shipped over 3 million units.
Sony initially shipped 500,000 units of the PlayStation 2 to North American retailers with plans to ship approximately 100,000 additional units per week. Sony estimated that it will have shipped a total of 1.3 million market after only two months of release.
Sony predicted that by March 31, 2001, it will have shipped 3 million units in the U.S. and produced ten million units for the worldwide market.
These aren't sales numbers, just what sony said they wanted to ship. I'm sure with more digging I could come across more, but for some reason there doesn't seem to be a source for "this month, year XX, this many sold"
I'd really like to find that info for all of last generation's consoles, specifically for their first years.

I just think that given the dire predictions we're seeing for the ps3 from so many people, looking at the ps2's first year is interesting from how similar so much of it is. It wasn't this huge success from the start afterall, it was only with time that the many things we attribute to the ps2 and it's domination of the market came forth.
The question I have is whether the ps3 is harder to develop for because it's once again so different, if it's because Sony isn't providing support to it's developers, or if the system is really that badly engineered. I've heard all three from various sources, and I've read several reports saying just the opposite as well.

In the end this is a pretty interesting time to be a gamer, and I think as time passes the result will be improved games and features for all three systems.

simcha @ Mar 2nd 2007 7:59AM

First off, Darko, there is no need for the derogatory comments, I wasn't trying to insult you, secondly, what I ment was by having something that's a bit difficult for someone to work with, they're forced into thinking about whatever it is that's difficult in strategy. Ever done a puzzle? You have to organize thoughts and then pieces and then find patterns and put it together. Think in terms of creating the boarder first, you know that boarder pieces have one straight edge to them.

With the tech kits, because they're difficult to use at first, Devs have to go about using them in a similar kind of process. Because of this process they might be able to design and create something that's more complex or just all around different then the ps3 architecture had in mind as apposed to something that's already somewhat simple (At least for a Dev) to use and not be forced into that situation. That's all I was saying. As for graphical ability, your most likely right, but games aren't just pretty pictures, they're interactive environments.

dsr7997 @ Mar 2nd 2007 8:29AM

Nick, I felt it was important to admit that the past few days you have put some really good articles up and kept it very positive in the process. I figured if I am going to hammer you when I think it's bad I should in turn tell you when it is good. Great job!

Naaiif @ Mar 2nd 2007 9:33AM

Is this becoming the new system wars section?

Anyway just like to say that developers will complain about how hard it is to develop on the ps3 because Sony have made their system future proff, it's slightly ahead of it's time in term of components, maybe not graphically with the RSX but definetely with Blu-ray and the Cell CPU. Now i know this isn't the dreamcast but it's jsut an example: The dreamcast was praised for it's easy development procedure and variety of games out a year after when the ps2 launched, it was a great console at the time - like the xbox 360 because the hardware was for then and now.

But two to three years after, choices which initially looked good turned round to bite them in the butt. CD-ROM's (Well GD-ROM, but it was inredibly similar to CD-ROM)had gone, not enough storage, games were using 3-4 disks (shenmue), in this case with the xbox 360 (blue dragon).

Also the terrific online capabilities of the Dreamcast at the time is incredibly similar to the Xbox 360's situation.

Regardless of who you think will win, or whther it was in the past you have to admit that the ps2 vs dreamcast and the ps3 vs xbox 360 situation was incredibly similar.

Naaiif @ Mar 2nd 2007 9:37AM

Anyway Nick can we get a story on the GTA IV teaser at rockstar's website, speculation you know that sort of thing.

Remmeber it is a ps3 game aswell as xbox 360, alot of people seem to forget that on the Internet and just think about how Sony lost another exclusive, even though GTA has never been a full exclusive.

SlavedHeart @ Mar 2nd 2007 11:07AM

@ Extinction....

You gave that guy too much room... all you needed to say was 'look', any amount of searching would have found reams and reams of info... Anyone happy with their PS3... PFFFT! If no one was happy, then why isn't the retail channel flooded with returns? If that was the case, it simply follows that there would be at least a 50% return rate, no? At least, even if you figured that the other half of the people who dropped over 600$ were too lazy to go get their money back. and that's LAZY, I'll walk over shards of broken glass for a fiver and a pint, I'd a tickle a bull under the chin for 600... it's a nice bit of scratch.

And happy with the M$ kit? (as you so succinctly put it, those money grubbers) It has more detractors and complaints on it's game dev kit than you could count. do ANY looking and you will find thread after thread on countless message boards about this topic. Just make sure to spell it Microsoft, not m$, those making a living off don't often mock the given name of their cash cow, even if they gripe about the product.

Sorry dude, but you gotta just call that one, he was talking from the hip, without doing any research first. Everyone needs to Stop coddling people who say dumb things.

Darko @ Mar 2nd 2007 12:51PM

@SlavedHeart

Ok so maybe saying that no one has complained about the 360s dev kit was a bit extreme, I was only comparing it to the PS3s kit. So I would like to restate what I said as: In comparison to the PS3 dev kits, developers have not complained on such a large scale (media wise) about the 360s dev kit. Every developer will have issues at some point and time with the development tools provided. There is always room for improvement. And I only abreviate Microsoft as M$ because these are forum posts not technical papers.

Please dont take my posts as hateful or Microsoft fanboy comments.... heck Im going to buy a PS3 just not anytime this year. If it were the 360 that were making these mistakes and having these difficulties I would be making comments about them.

Anyway, Im done!

Cheers!