LittleBigPlanet developers give a little love to the PS3
With its advanced and "esoteric" cell architecture, the PS3 has certainly developed a reputation for being a bit hard to develop for. As coders actually begin to spend more time with the mighty black monolith, the tone regarding the PS3's development challenges seems to be shifting. Now we're starting to hear praise.
The developer of the upcoming multiplayer platformer, LittleBigPlanet, is all candy-and-roses when it comes to game creation on the console: "The PS3 has this insane quantity of power, which seems to take a cloth simulator, and then lots more you want to throw at it. It's just a really enjoyable machine to code for."
Media Molecule does caution that developers need to approach the PS3 with fresh code, as bringing your legacy code base will present some significant frustrations.
[Via Wired]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Hashbrown_Hunter @ Apr 10th 2007 9:55PM
I'm glad Media Molecule answered this with praise. That way we know LittleBigPlanet is gonna work well. =P
Time @ Apr 10th 2007 10:28PM
well, this is certainly something good to hear about......months ago during the Height of ps3 bashing, I decided to look into some of these things that made the ps3 look so horrible, what I find was actually more reasons to own a ps3 while everyone else were finding reasons to bash it
at one time months ago I heard some developer state that writhing for the cell requires a different way of thinking , something that is new and not traditional coding so the "Media Molecule does caution that developers need to approach the PS3 with fresh code, as bringing your legacy code base will present some significant frustrations". thing seem to confirm this
and so many Sony fanboys said this before but I will say it again..just give the ps3 time, for fuck sake you people gave the 360 nearly a year for it to roll out its great games ( yes I like the 360) so just give the same grace period to the ps3
Time @ Apr 11th 2007 12:35AM
Hello?...is anyone here, I mean jeez, if this was something bad, we would have a thousands post(mostly xbots) by now
I mean this is something positive we can actually talk about...
why is this post so dead?
Shit I am talking to myself............again
SyberSmoke @ Apr 11th 2007 1:12AM
Of coarse your talking to your self. All the 360 goons and M$ viral marketers don;t like allot of good news about Sony. They are like cockroaches, when the light of truth comes around, they scurry for the shadows. :-)
As for the news, this is great to hear. Just the ability to push off multiple tasks and power intensive code onto it's own Cell Proc is a great thing. Developers just need to get used to it is all. But I look forward to the time when the PS3 people can look at the fan boys and go "We told you so!"
mccomber @ Apr 11th 2007 1:14AM
It's dead because it's what so many of us have been saying for so long. Much like the ps2 was "so hard to develop for", the ps3 is unique architecture. Once they get into it (and get better tools), many developers who are up for the challenge seem to like what they see, and will push it and produce the games that make us go wow, and we'll see what the system is capable of.
It also explains why so many of the ports seem sub-par. Code written for one system isn't going to run as well on another, simple as that.
commariodore64 @ Apr 11th 2007 9:06AM
I might be more positive about this comment if it were made by an independently funded developer. Media Molecule is being backed ($) by Sony on this project. Being a relatively small outfit - it would behoove them to suck up and hope for a few more future bones from Sony.
drivendriver @ Apr 11th 2007 9:33AM
I can understand why developers who have spent years writing code for single-core PC's find it tricky to write code for Cell:
- You need to think multi-threaded.
- Each SPE only has 256KB of local memory. So if you have a large dataset (or a large array) that you want to process with the SPE's, you have to break it down into small chunks that will fit in SPE local storage.
- SPE's can only access main memory via DMA. An SPE can't just take an address in main memory and read the value stored at that address. If you want an SPE to use data stored in main memory, you have to download the data from main memory to the SPE's local storage via DMA. Note that this is how graphics chips access data. The difference is that, in the case of a graphics chip, the driver takes care of the DMA for you.
The trickiest part in my experience is hiding the latency of the DMA transfers. But once you've learned to do that, you have unrivaled integer or single-precision floating point performance. Nothing else in the consumer space comes even close.
The great thing about PS3 is not just that you have 7 cores to play with; it's that each SPE is a vector processing (or SIMD) unit that can process 4 32-bit numbers at a time.
Thomas @ Apr 11th 2007 10:38AM
Was that Carmack who went public saying that the ps3 was so hard to develop for... and he's supposed to be a great developer...
I just want to see developers get the most out of the ps3, and lets see what type of games come out as a result.
Time @ Apr 11th 2007 11:03AM
@commariodore64
I understand what you are saying but I don't think that it's valid..I mean think about it..it's become so fashionably to bash Sony these days that anything positive and its "oh Sony is just paying them to lie to us"
What the hell?
I mean really, these developers that says positive stuff about the ps3 are not owned by Sony, funded yes but not owned, like so many others can just leave Sony, (for fuck sake their arrogance seem to be driving them away or something) My point is that it's so very noble of Microsoft to be buying up exclusives from everywhere like there's no tomorrow, but a few developers even mention that they like the power of the ps3 and they are automatically a fanboy (or fangirl)
So when some people like the Chief Developer (insomniac) says that the ps3 will get better but I am not suppose to take this into consideration because he works with Sony, but I am suppose to believe rabid Internet geeks that never wrote a code in their life?
a $600 machine is not an impulse buy like the wii, you have to hear the whole story and not some half-ass bias version of it when it comes to the ps3
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 11th 2007 11:14AM
Although this is good for those producing Sony-only titles, it seems it's a catch 22 for Sony simply because a lot of titles have gone multiplatform. If the PS3 had launched first, we'd hear the same thing about it being difficult to program for just like the PS2, yet it wouldn't matter because it would be the only next-gen system on the market.
But it didn't launch first. It launched a year after the 360, and side-by-side with the Wii. The competition is already here. So, a developer saying it's difficult can simply go to the other guy's console, and that option wasn't available last go round.
So, yes, it's good to hear that such games as Heavenly Sword, Lair, MGS4, and FFXIII will take advantage of the Cell and Blu-ray's storage capacity. But, for a multiplatform release like Assassin's Creed, GTAIV, and others, it seems Sony will be getting the short end of the stick.
commariodore64 @ Apr 11th 2007 11:48AM
@ Time
What I said is that it would mean MORE coming OUTSIDE of Sony's payroll. No employee getting a check would publicly bite the hand that feeds them.
It's a conflict of interest to invest so much into a comment coming from a company in their position.
(My kid is smarter than yours!)
And in this instance the entire game is BUILT around the PS3's strength in regaards to physics & fpu calculations. Let's see a 3rd party developer making a blockbuster game show us what can be done - THEN I'll take solace in the fact that my PS3 can be used for more than BluRay Movies.
I'm not hating - I'm being realistic. And in the realistic world - you ccan't ignore SOny's hot air and empty promises. I play my 360 every day. My Wii roughly every day, give or take. I play my PS3 when a newly released game (non 360 port) comes out. Which means I have played 3 or 4 games and been done with them rather quickly. Just the real facts. No personal preeference involved. Merely the metrics.
commariodore64 @ Apr 11th 2007 11:51AM
@Dolla Dolla
So, it's really about the games? ;) The platform dosen't matter. Had the original Xbox come out first and garnnered a swift critical mass - then the games might have gone to them last round.
Bottom line - it's about the games, and currently Xbox360 has them. Sony needs to turn things around QUICKLY....the whole 'put up, or shut up' arguement comes to mind....
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 11th 2007 12:00PM
@commariodore64
It's always been about games ;)
Sony knew that last generation, which is why the PS2 had over 1,000 games released in each respective region (NTSC, NTSC-J, PAL). Sony seems to have lost that vision this go round, and are suffering because of it.
But you have to give Sony credit where credit is due. Who else could sell a 599 USD system with hardly any games to this many people? Not Microsoft, and certainly not Nintendo.
Time @ Apr 11th 2007 1:02PM
@commariodore64
I see what you are talking about, but I point is that they don't have to say anything at all, I mean again insomniac chief developer gave praise to the ps3 on his own free will, independent of Sony, he said it himself, it has nothing to do with payroll, if it was, they would have jump ship like so many others and go with Microsoft and nintendo, because it widely believed that its much safer and would be more profitable to work for them
So I really don't think it has to do with anything with being on Sony payroll
The whole 3rd party thing just won't hold that much water anymore, at least not this early, because again so many people have said this so its not just me, Sony have been beefing up their First and second parities to massive levels, well beyond anything before in gaming history, again this is not me saying this, it's people (industry insiders) independent of Sony saying this (hell, even that insomniac chief developer stating something like this)
if you was to tell me something like God Of War and God of War 2 was possible on the ps2 4 years ago I would have called you crazy.....But seeing as how that game was made by Sony then who better to utilize the full power of the Sony Playstation....................other then sony themselves
So I think its massively important and impressive that Sony is going to take a lot more action with its own hardware.....shit somebody has too
The whole ps3 needs games is so very true, but if you buy a $600 console and not know or even have some idea on how its future may or may not look like.....I can't help you
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 11th 2007 1:29PM
@Time
Using Insomniac to strengthen your argument doesn't help. As "independent" as they are, they've only developed games for Sony, from PS1, PS2, and now PS3. They braved Sony's launch with still the best game in the PS3's library.
I'm sure we'll see great things from the PS3, make no mistake. God of War 1 and 2 are awesome games, and Shadow of the Colossus is one of my favorites.
If you ask me, Sony should've dropped Blu-ray. They could've launched alongside the 360, same price point(or better), and I guarantee they would've 3-peated a 100-million systems sold. All those exclusives that jumped ship to go multiplatform would've stayed exclusive.
It wouldn't even be fair.
JayD-1K @ Apr 11th 2007 2:14PM
@DollaDolla
blue ray is not the problem here. programing for the Cell, is what is causing heartburn with the devs. "and to me", the devs moving out of their comfort zone and trying new ways of thinking should be a natural progression....not a stumbling block!
and i'm sorry but i don't agree with blue ray beeing left out of the system because of price simply.....i get a lil upset sometimes, when i think of the fact that i bought a $487 dvd player! (with an extra controller and a charge n play kit) ;)
and to tell you the truth...i haven't paid that much for a dvd player in 8yrs!
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 11th 2007 2:37PM
@JayD-1K
I never said Blu-ray was a problem. I simply said if they didn't have Blu-ray, they would've launched sooner and cheaper, true or false? And if it launched the same time as the 360, it would've blown the 360 out of the water, true or false?
The PS2 was notoriously hard to program for in its infancy, but what other system was out at the time? There was no Xbox or Gamecube yet. So developers had no choice. Now there is a choice, and the majority have decided multiplatform. Hell, even Guitar Hero 3 is going to the Wii.
And believe me, the last thing you are buying an Xbox 360 for is the DVD player. But I do think it's weird that to justify the PS3 costs, most would say "It's a cheap Blu-ray player!" Yeah, it most certainly is, only I don't want a Blu-ray player. I want a games machine, and guess who has the majority of those...
JayD-1K @ Apr 12th 2007 2:31PM
@Dolla Dolla
1.True 2.MAYBE!
with out BD, we would now have a better PS2 with a cell processor. does it justify the price....it depends on how you see it!
i know that you don't buy the box for a dvd player but, but without the online gameplay an online functions..it wouldn't be anything more true or false?!
i mean, the dvd player in that PS2 was unneeded and a usless function buuuut, look how it helped the gameing world progress and move forward. and i'm sorry..looking back at the dvd format, you would have to be a (to me) fool not to think that BD couldn't do the same thing.
or could it be if it was a HD dvd format...everybody would like it?
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 12th 2007 3:54PM
@JayD-1K
Even without online gaming or functions, the 360 is still a games machine. There's no point watching DVDs on it because of how loud the DVD drive is when it is spinning.
And the PS2's DVD player was actually a very strategic and smart move by Sony. It was neither useless nor unneeded. DVD players were still a bit expensive at the time, but the leap from VHS to DVD was astounding. No more rewinding, no more degrading of picture over time, more space, higher quality audio and video. It was a proven format.
In my opinion, Blu-ray and HD-DVD's benefits over DVD aren't as big as DVD to VHS. It's just more space.
I would've LOVED to see Sony with a DVD drive instead of Blu-ray, and I'm not alone. Ask David Jaffe ;)
JayD-1K @ Apr 13th 2007 8:34AM
i don't remember Sega or the original PS haveing a VHS player in them? lol j/k (we're were talking about gaming machines right?)
as far as it goes for media, the argument about DVD vs. VHS/DVD vs. BD, it is what it is. if you feel that DVD is the way to go and it's what you want...than more power to you.
and David Jaffe...he has other things on his mind besides games!(Like family) and if i read it right, he would like be able to spend more time out of the studios but, with what people are wanting games to look and feel like, that wouldn't be posible until you could cut and paste the game together and just add a voice and music.
it was a nice discusion. hope to have many more.
thanx
Dolla Dolla @ Apr 13th 2007 12:24PM
I agree. Nice discussion, and I also look forward to more.
kingnick @ Apr 13th 2007 3:19PM
The PS3 is inferior to all other platforms with regards to code portability, which anyone familar with the PS3's tech should already know
I guess the parade of mediocre ports will continue as I doubt (insert misc multiplatform dev) are going to fully recreate their multiplatform games to perform respectably on the PS3.