Gran Turismo 5 confirmed to have no damage to vehicles?

by Nick Doerr { Apr 20th 2007 at 9:00AM }

We say confirmed with a question mark because the debate is still up in the air, but apparently there was a little scuffle between a group of message board visitors and a Gran Turismo development staff member regaring the issue of damage to the licensed cars. The staff member worked on Gran Turismo HD and is hard at work on Gran Turismo 5, which is awesome. But here are a few quotes from the guy worth scratching our chins over:

"...We're not ready to implement damage until they can be shown in a truly authentic way (which is extremely hard work if you think about it)."
Damage in Gran Turismo would make the franchise unstoppable, don't you think? He responds: "No I mean, really, really, really hard work... to the extent of creating another game, almost. From our standards, what other games are doing is "simplified damage". You know how [anal] we are when making our games... we would want to simulate every single dent differently."

Not sure why they bleeped out anal -- it's a perfectly appropriate word, because Polyphony Digital really does get down to the most painstaking detail when crafting these games. So what's this sound like to you? The staff member who said this checks out. He's completely legit (but we can't reveal the obvious). We're saying there won't be damage this time. Maybe for GT5 A-Spec or something. I dunno. I won't mind. Besides, you're not supposed to crash in the driving sim games.
[Thanks, derrickgott007!]

Tags: Gran Turismo 5, GranTurismo5, PlayStation 3, Playstation3, Polyphony, PS3, Sony

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Rowdy Rob @ Apr 20th 2007 9:18AM

That is a little dissapointing but it kind of makes sense. Look at PGR3 and how the car would show the same damage every time. Seeing it get messed up the same wouldnt be too much of a problem it would still be a nice feature along with a performance decrease while your car is busted up.

Travis @ Apr 20th 2007 10:04AM

The argument that they don't want to do it unless they can do it "right" is stupid to me. One thing that I can't stand when playing GT HD is how the cars bounce off of the barriers as if they're made of rubber. That's definitely not doing it "right".

Stef Geiger @ Apr 20th 2007 10:08AM

Too bad. Adding damage might have been the only thing that would be able to keep me from falling asleep playing Gran Turismo.

I find driving my grandfather's 1997 Camry more entertaining than pretending to drive a Ferrari in a realistic simulation. I know, I'm crazy. I just don't get simulation style games. Videogames are supposed to let us do things we couldn't pull off in real life. Gran Turismo lets me go around a corner at 30MPH. I can do that in real life. Yes, Gran Turismo lets me drive Ferraris etc, but it's still not exactly an authentic experience even if you have a steering wheel.

shase @ Apr 20th 2007 10:11AM

I never played Forza2 but how does the damage affect the car? Does the car have mechanical problems when hit in the engine? Do the wheels pop if hit around there? Does the trunk flap up and down when getting rearended (causing trunk to break open). Do the lights still work when getting hit? can the sideview mirrors get broken and limits your driving abilites?

If forza2 does all those "damages" then i am sold. But if forza2 just does "cosmetic" damage and doesnt do funtionality then its a half @ssed job and not worthy of a driving simulator. I believe if GT team does damage they will cover all the angles.

SuicideNinja @ Apr 20th 2007 10:33AM

I don't see the problem. Even Burnout Revenge's ludicrous damage was perfectly acceptable. Sure, it doesn't affect the car's handling in that game, but it's not out of the question.

I'm already looking to try Forza 2 way over Gran Turismo...and it actually has nothing to do with which console it's on. It just seems more interesting (damage, physics) from what we know. Most likely, I won't like it either, but I'm willing to try it. The "invisible bouncy wall" and "bouncy cars" does take some fun out of it. People don't go to watch NASCAR...they go to watch crashing.

They'll probably shape up on the next outing.

busboy33 @ Apr 20th 2007 10:44AM

"5. I never played Forza2 but how does the damage affect the car? Does the car have mechanical problems when hit in the engine? Do the wheels pop if hit around there? Does the trunk flap up and down when getting rearended (causing trunk to break open). Do the lights still work when getting hit? can the sideview mirrors get broken and limits your driving abilites?

If forza2 does all those "damages" then i am sold. But if forza2 just does "cosmetic" damage and doesnt do funtionality then its a half @ssed job and not worthy of a driving simulator. I believe if GT team does damage they will cover all the angles."

Your choice. Can't speak for Froza2 (not out yet), but Forza 1 had Simulation damage, when different damage effects different performance aspects (a busted tailfin throws off aerodynamics, bent wheel well jacks tire wear, temp and camber, etc.). You can also set it to cosmetic -- same visual destruction, but control is unaffected (for racing-not-simulation fans). Yeah, trunks flap, and if you drive with the "in car" view then your rear view is nothing but your trunk. I believe you could also turn damage off completelyt, but I'm not sure of that last statement.
According to Turn 10, the Forza2 developers, the damage should be more detailed. They have confirmed that car parts will stay where they fall for the whole race, and hitting a mangled bumper at 130 mph WILL not be good for your car. We'll be able to see in a month, I guess.
Yes, I'm an 360 owner and Xbox fan, but with all respect to GT (it is the Elvis of racing games) Forza1 was fantastic. If you're adriving fan (sim or otherwise) I highly recomend you at least try Forza2, regardless of your platform affiliation.

p.s. cars hitting guard rails or bumbers reacted quite well in F1 -- the only thing the game would not let you do is flip the car. F2 claims to have a physics engine that updates 360 times a second -- here's hoping for flips!!

jaysins @ Apr 20th 2007 10:51AM

Don't have a PS3 yet but I've owned every GT excluding the HD version sold in the PS store. As a fan of the series I think Forza is really gaining ground on the GT series. I actually preferred 3 over 4 in a lot of regards and if Forza 2 does what it says and does it well than they are in my opinion bringing a lot more to the table than GT this time around. I hope Forza 2 makes GT 6 even better by finally giving the series some stiff competition. Who knows I may have to drop GT 5 for Forza if it lives up to the hype. Those are some pretty big shoes to fill, however the potential is there.

stockstar1138 @ Apr 20th 2007 11:00AM

Unforntately the discussion has been taken off of the web. However, it you read the posts of a lot of people it seems as if many think this is in regards to an updated GTHD in the fall. Notice that in the dialouge GT5 is never mentioned.

There will be damage, it there isn't PD will lose a shit ton of GT fans. The PS3 has the power to make damage look good.

shase @ Apr 20th 2007 11:22AM

I do recall the designer or someone in an interview mentioning damage to be downloadable content

Liquid @ Apr 20th 2007 11:34AM

You want damage You cant handle damage!!
If its not simulating right don't call it a simulation leave it alone until you can do it right.

oh and this is for all you damage freaks (you are the people on the left)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jiVCEceZQ

jou @ Apr 20th 2007 11:47AM

"From our standards, what other games are doing is "simplified damage". You know how [anal] we are when making our games... we would want to simulate every single dent differently.""

I don't actually even want real damage for Gran Turismo that much (although cosmetic damage in PGR style would be nice), but these excuses they give are just plain bullshit.

If they are so anal about realism in their games, how come there hasn't been any kind of AI in the previous Turismos? It just isn't there - the enemy cars drive on pre-programmed rails like trains, lap after lap.

My second huge grief with previous Turismos has been the crazy, totally unrealistic rubberband car speed adjustment system that is employed in some races. You beat everyone in qualification by 20 seconds, yet you cannot shake the others off in the race even if your lap times are about the same as in qualification.

However, if you drop down to second, your lap times will mysteriously drop by 20 seconds. Get back to first position ...and the drones will follow even though they shouldn't be able to, not even in theory.

Come to think of it, Gran Turismo is actually garbage. Presentation is excellent, but in the inside it's very shallow. Only excellent online multiplayer can save the next one. I couldn't give a f*ck whether it has 800 cars. Even 80 would be plenty.

Shei a @ Apr 20th 2007 11:52AM

yeah... that sounds like the way to sell a game right there.
"you want realistic damage"
"yes"
"well realistic damage is to hard"
"but I just want damage"
"no, no damage for you!"
"fine, I'll buy a different game instead"
...
...
"wait.... NOOOO!"

derrickgott007 @ Apr 20th 2007 11:58AM

In the dialog that I had with the Developer, I asked him specifically about GT5....he said NO DAMAGE in responce to GT5. I told him about how people are exploiting the no damage in GTHD and asked if they are implementing it in GT5...he replys with NO.

My converstation with him was REMOVED from the SONY message boards...so I must have hit pretty close to home.

Liquid @ Apr 20th 2007 12:07PM

jou

you must be talking about PGR or some shit like that
i think in stead of beaning here trolling you should be quiet and stfu and hope Foulshit i mean Forza looks a bit as good as GTHD

I wonder why these fool are here,they say they are never going to play the game they don't give a crap about the ps3
but they are here talking more about it than their xbox i wonder whats wrong xbox died
or microsoft paying good ?

WTangoFoxtrot @ Apr 20th 2007 12:22PM

hmm this could mean a change in the way racing "simulations" are looked upon with GT collapsing below Forza 2.

Wonderflex @ Apr 20th 2007 12:23PM

Although off topic (as if anything ever is), I've been rather confused as to what exactly GTHD is in comparison to GT5. I know that GTHD is pretty and all, but isn't it just an upgrade to a GT4 level, along with some different cars?

Will GT5 have it's own engine, with graphics that are far above what we see in GTHD? And is there any confirmed information about GT5? Everywhere I go to look up information on the game it links to articles about GTHD.

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 12:49PM

In an interview from 2004 or 2005 Kazunori Yamauchi said that GT5 WILL have damage. I will try to find the artilce and if I do, I will post it. Maybe he has changed his mind since then, but until he says or Sony says that there will be no damage in GT5 I will continue to believe that damage will indeed make it's long awaited apperance in GT5.

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 12:54PM

Here is one from 2004
Gran Turismo 5 Damage Enabled??? [ News ]
Speaking at a recent Japanese event, Kazunori Yamauchi expects real-time damage models to feature in the next instalment...
Author: Chris Leyton | Date Added: 10/11/2004

Despite the time taken for Gran Turismo 4 to finally hit the market and the lack of any online features, Polyphony Digital head-honcho, Kazunori Yamauchi recently revealed details on the next instalment in the driving series.

No we’re not talking about the legendary online enabled GT4 or its PSP adaptation, but actually Gran Turismo 5, currently pencilled in for release on the Playstation3. Despite actual development being a long way off, Yamauchi-san recently confirmed that he expects real-time damage models to feature in the game. The lack of damaging has long been an issue with the GT series; however Yamauchi and his team have always maintained they’ll only include it when they can create not only visual damage but a model that affects the performance of your vehicle realistically.
I got this from Total VideoGames website

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 12:57PM

Here is another one...from PSInext
Car Wrecks in GT5
Posted By Josh on November 10, 2004

During an interview with series producer Kazunori Yamauchi, it was mentioned that Polyphony would like to add detailed car damage to the game for the next incarnation on PS3.
Yamauchi said, “So far in the Gran Turismo series, we haven't had cars crash or overturn. We believed expressing this properly to be more difficult than actually making [the cars] race. In addition to properly replicating the underside of the car, when a collision occurs we'd have to have proper shape changes based on proper physical calculations. In Gran Turismo 5, we'd like to definitely add this element. We believe it will be a big theme."

Sounds like Polyphony is up for a lot of extra work in their next installment. It was also mentioned that they may use a motion capture device (like EyeToy) to control certain aspects of the game. While no concrete plans were relayed, it is of note that Sony has mentioned a possible EyeToy-like device for the PS3.

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 1:06PM

One more...These are old articles, so alot can change, but Kaz has been planning for car damage in GT5 for 3 years now. So, like I said, until HE says there will be no car damage in GT5 I will go by what he said in these interviews.

Posted 10 Nov 2004
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This article has been read 142 times
New Gran Turismo 5 Details Emerge
by

Kazunori Yamauchi-san CEO of Polyphony Digital, spoke at a Japanese event today and confirmed that he expects to see real-time damage in the next instalment of Gran Turismo (GT5) on the PlayStation 3.

The ability to damage cars in real time has been sought after ever since the first Gran Turismo on the PSOne. The inability in the latest GT game Gran Turismo 4 has lead to criticism of the series. Polyphony previously stated that they couldn’t include car damage because the majority of car manufacturers didn’t want to have realistic models of their cars being damaged in video games. But other racing simulation games have included car damage with realistic cars since then.

Fortunately now, it would appear that Polyphony, after four iterations of the sector-leading franchise, have managed to convince the motor industry to allow car damage for the next Gran Turismo game.

Yamauchi stated that his team will only create realistic car damage when they can create a realistic car physics/handling engine that reflects the damage of the vehicle. Other details such as car rolling have yet to be revealed.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 1:10PM

Actually, I hope there is no car damage. GT isn't the kind of game that will let you live after a collision if it had real damage. The game is about realism and if you crash at the speed that GT has always had, you will always have to restart the race because that car will be totaled. Besides, what kind of driver are you that you crash enough to even get damage on your car? The whole point is to not crash and to drive perfectly. As it is, you even mess up once while racing, it is extremelly difficult to get back to first.

(Though as a side note, if they did have realistic damage, it would spectacular to watch, even if it did completely wreck your car.)

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 1:10PM

One more article. Kazunori has been planning on car damage for GT5 since 2004. So, for at least 3 years he has been thinking about car damage and how to do it. Until HE says that there will be no car damage in GT5, I will believe that there will be damage.
Hopefully, he will clear this all up for us soon.

Posted 10 Nov 2004
Print this pageEmail this page
This article has been read 142 times
New Gran Turismo 5 Details Emerge
by

Kazunori Yamauchi-san CEO of Polyphony Digital, spoke at a Japanese event today and confirmed that he expects to see real-time damage in the next instalment of Gran Turismo (GT5) on the PlayStation 3.

The ability to damage cars in real time has been sought after ever since the first Gran Turismo on the PSOne. The inability in the latest GT game Gran Turismo 4 has lead to criticism of the series. Polyphony previously stated that they couldn’t include car damage because the majority of car manufacturers didn’t want to have realistic models of their cars being damaged in video games. But other racing simulation games have included car damage with realistic cars since then.

Fortunately now, it would appear that Polyphony, after four iterations of the sector-leading franchise, have managed to convince the motor industry to allow car damage for the next Gran Turismo game.

Yamauchi stated that his team will only create realistic car damage when they can create a realistic car physics/handling engine that reflects the damage of the vehicle. Other details such as car rolling have yet to be revealed.

Jebus Crust @ Apr 20th 2007 1:11PM

Fracking double post delays...sorry, I thought it did not post.

bgdc @ Apr 20th 2007 1:15PM

Load of crap. They don't do damage for reasons they're not mentioning. The lack of a damage model makes GT boring as hell. There's no risk in hitting another car to make a corner.

Wonderflex @ Apr 20th 2007 1:22PM

@ Vincent060

I agree that GT is about driving as perfect as possible, but if you think about it this would only encourage even safer driving.

I know a lot of the time if I'm going at any speed above 150 in the city based Special Condition races I just lock myself to the wall and let it glide me around the corner. That way I never have to let off the gas, or even more so, worry about getting a 5 second penalty.

With damage this wouldn't really be possible, and for once there would be a real way to get back at the CPU who never has to worry about penalties, and thus will ram you straight into the wall. You could use your bonnet to send him into a spin into the sides, giving them a real penalty; or you could let them have a nice break-check and end up messing up their engine.

stockstar1138 @ Apr 20th 2007 2:05PM

if they are going to have online, they are going to have to have some type of damage. you can't have amateurs running into other cars and riding walls. even if there are penalties like a few races in gt4, there are definately ways of getting around them.

i wont believe that there is no damage until PD comes out and says no damage. They have been wanting to do damage forever and now have the tools to do it. this game isn't coming out for another year, so I highly doubt they have already made a set decsion as important as this one. if damage isn't included forza is going to take over and they know that.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 2:39PM

@Wonderflex

I agree that damage might help discourage reckless driving, but concerning your point about wall-riding (which I think that's what that wall hugging thing is called), I've seen them do it in PGR3(?) (can't remember which one I saw it in), even though they have car damage.

I still don't see what is so special about car damage. Why would you want to mess up your ride. I remember in Forza the annoyance I had when I had to pay for every simple dent on the thing. And to make matters worse the idiot AI driver that you can hire seems to crash at every chance he gets, regardless of how high I raise his skills. On top of that I have to pay HIM for every race after messing up my ride. He must be friends with the repair guy or something. That is something I don't want to go through in the next GT.

Jitty @ Apr 20th 2007 2:47PM

Games like GT don't need damage modeling. Damage modeling is good for games like burnout, and motorstorm. But games like ridge racer and GT don't NEED damage modeling. Damage modeling would be a nice bonus to have in a game like GT but not having it does not detract from the overall experience of the game. As long as GT5 looks at least as good as GTHD and has good physics, I will be happy and so should every GT and driving simulator fan...

elementmailman @ Apr 20th 2007 3:03PM

Well Forza Motorsport can do it. I guess Gran Turismo doesn't care about its customers. Guess I'll just keep playing my Xbox 360.

derrickgott007 @ Apr 20th 2007 3:13PM

Jitty, you couldnt be more wrong....Games like Gran Turismo NEED DAMAGE. In real racing there is damage...rear end someone who checks up and you have to deal with the damage as a result. DAMAGE IS A PART OF RACING, and those who don't think so are blind fools.

How can some one call themselves the "True Driving Simulator" when I can go outside, run my car into a guardrail and see damage, yet when I play a "True Driving Simulator" I don't get to see any damage as a result of missing my braking point and hitting the guard rail?

Let me put it to you this way....Taking off is part of flying, so wouldn't a "True Flying Simulator" be stupid to not include taking off?? See what I am getting at? If you can bounce off of cars and walls with no recourse, then you are not going to concetrate that hard...now if there was damage that would affect car handling then yes, you would concentrate.

ITS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, IT'S COMMON SENSE....DAMAGE IS PART OF RACING...TOCA 3 ON PS3 HAS IT, SO WHY CAN'T GT5 ON PS3 HAVE IT?

derrickgott007 @ Apr 20th 2007 3:21PM

I Meant TOCA 3 on PS2...sorry....

But you can bet that TOCA RACE DRIVER ONE on PS3/Xbox360 will have damage.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 4:04PM

@derrickgott007

Why would you ram into a guardrail? Anyways, the point about the take-off thing has absolutly nothing to do with damage in a game. What kind of maniac racer are you to want car damage? GT games are a work of art and I wouldn't want any damage on it. If you play the game and do something to necessate damage on your car, you are not playing it right. Games like Forza can get away with it because they don't strive for racing in it's purest form like GT.

I've played both GT4 and Forza, and I don't see how anyone can enjoy Forza over GT4.

Wonderflex @ Apr 20th 2007 5:09PM

@Vincent060

I would have to agree with derrickgott007. Damage is a real part of driving, and a real driving simulator, should include it. His comment about the guard rail is in relation to the what I was talking about where you are able to enter corners at very high speeds, without losing much control, in GT4 simply by huggin the wall prior to the corner, and sticking to that hug all the way through. In real life though though that just doesn't work.

In respect to your comment though it isn't that Forza "get's away" with anything. In fact they keep you from getting away with things that simply aren't okay to do, but do happen, in the racing world.

For example, I like to drive the BMW M5, it's got some weight behind it, and a I personally like the way it handles. If I'm in a race where a car has more power than me I can take a straight away as fast as possible, then when the opponent slows down to go into a corner I can either T-bone him, sending them flying into the dirt, or power-slide and nudge them off course, while allowing their car to keep me on track.

Although this isn't a best driving practice you can be for certain that if their wasn't any damage and you played online that plenty of people would use this arcade-style tactics to win. Damage would prevent this, and further encourage the type of driving you describe as "racing in it's purest form."

I LOVE GT4, but if there was one thing I would add to the game, it would be damage. If there were three it would be engine sounds recorded from actual cars, and the ability to add rally/race looking paint to any car.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 9:06PM

Wait, let me get back to the comment about the flying simulator. If it did have plane damage, the only way to find out would be to actually hit something. Of course, if you did, the plane would likely crash and burn. You see what I'm getting at? Plus, GT has VERY fast cars, like that Pikes Peak car (forgot the name), it has like a thousand hp and can go nearly 300mph, so a collision in that car will be devestating.

HOWEVER, I'm starting to see what use car damage can do (you guys wore me down.) I think GT will be okay with car damage as long as I still don't have to pay for the AI driver to drive for me. The AI driver in GT4 was smarter then the one in Forza (at least for me) and I hate having to pay him after every race after almost wrecking my ride. The AI in GT5 will not crash as much as I hope, so it would be okay.

But what about rally races? Do you also want car damage in those? I for one almost always collide with the wall in rallys, so if it ha realistic damage I might never be able to finish a race.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 9:09PM

@ Wonderflex

Oh yeah, before I forget, I do believe they have recorded sounds for each car. I remember seeing in a magazine somewhere a picture of a guy holding a microphone next to an exhaust. But I think that was for GT2, so I don't know if they still do it, but then, why shouldn't they?

John @ Apr 20th 2007 10:31PM

This is utterly in keeping with Polyphony Digital's drive for all-or-nothing.

Yes, Forza2 has damage. But as I've pointed out before, it's fake damage, and as such, I lost interest in that game.

I watched a demo where the guy rammed an Acura into a wall at 60 mph, trying to show the damage model.

Instead of the front crumpling, and the car being rendered utterly useless, which would happen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOG7y5CuNps

And that car wasn't even going 60 mph.

Instead, we had some superficial damage to the front, and some linkages relating to transmission and such were affected.

Fine for an RPG, but not at all realistic.

Sony is saying: if we can't do it realistically (and right now we can't, for various reasons) then we're not going to do it at all.

If Sony were to come out with a 'damage' model, it would be similar to that employed by Forza2, and therefore weak, and we would all be comparing who was more realistic.

What's sad, is if they did that, neither one would be realistic.

Sony is saying, we can't yet model cars getting realistic damage, so we won't.

There are two things at play, here.

Realistic physics modeling would take so much processor power that you couldn't play the game. Sure, it could be simplified, and approximated. But then we run into problem number 2:

Companies who license their vehicles do not want to allow REALISTIC damage to their cars.

Sure, they'll allow an Acura on Xbox360 to run into a wall at 60 mph with superficial damage... but they won't allow it to run into the wall at 45 mph with real damage, rendering the car totalled and the operator needing an ambulance.

Another thing they won't allow is vehicle rolling.

Some cars are more prone to flip than others, and when Sony was attempting to setup the work for damage, manufacturers constantly told them, you can't let the car roll.

Even if the car's physics would dictate that it rolled at a certain place, under certain conditions, that's not allowed.

Because we don't want people to think that our cars are unsafe.

So suddenly the developer is faced with a quandary:

I can do damage, but I can't do realistic damage.

I can have collisions, but in my physics model, if a particular car were to roll, or flip, I am not allowed to show this.

In fact, I would have to alter my physics model so that the car would not flip, thus making my realistic physics model pointless.

This is the road that Forza2 took, and they shout about it as loud as they can, saying that designers whine about manufacturers not letting them do physics and damage modeling.

When the truth is, sure, car manufacturers will let you do damage modeling, AS LONG AS IT'S NOT REALISTIC.

So Forza took that course, and Polyphony, to their strength, refuses to.

So you can play your Forza2 with damage modeling, but it's not realistic.

Me, I'll take a Gran Turismo without fake modeling, any day.

And maybe, sometime near 2012 when the truth just can't help but be known, we'll be able to drive a simulator with realistic damage physics, where if you, like a moron, run into a wall at even 45 mph, your car is essentially toast.

And for those of you who don't believe this, just learn a little more about physics, and read the mortician's report.

Vincent060 @ Apr 20th 2007 11:46PM

@ John

THANK YOU!!! That is the point I was trying to make. Cars that crash at the speeds in game will be rendered utterly unuseable. I don't want to do an endurance race and then suddenly have to start over because I made a slight mistake while driving driving due to lose of consentration (or whatever is called that state of mind when you've been driving for a very long time.)

Wonderflex @ Apr 21st 2007 9:52PM

@Vincent060

In regards to Rally Races, if you almost always hit the guard rails then I don't know why you would worry about a game being realistic or not. The goal is NEVER hit the guard rails, walls, or other cars, in the real world, so why wouldn't you want it any different in a game.

And endurance races, you'd have to think even harder about your driving, just like you would in real life. I'm sure that in a perfect world Gran Turismo would like to imitate life as much as possible (including those roll overs they can't do). And if we keep on saying, "na, we don't care about realism," then there will never be any push for them to try and get manufactures to let them flip their cars.

It's a driving simulator, not an arcade racer.

leon @ Apr 21st 2007 11:28PM

I dont care about damage.
As long as it has online support, I'm sold.

Burnt Meatloaf @ Apr 22nd 2007 11:06PM

*bkvalheim: "That is a myth, which was completely dubunked by the Turn10 development team. Forza 2 uses REAL cars, from Lambo's and Ferrari's to Corvette's and Honda's, all with damage."

Depends. You have to come up with a compromise that satisfies all the car companies. Also, damage may be allowed for use in games, but not printed in magazines or redistributed as official screenshots. In any case, a lot of BS is involved.

If you want to do a game where damage is a serious part of the sport, either use fake cars, or go stock. If you want a fun, arcade experience, I really don't know why people are so fussy about real, licensed cars.

Besides, most of the time, the cars I want to drive end up having awful handling. I own a Subaru and love it to bits, but I always end up driving a Mazda, Nissan, Porsche, or some other "favorite" model that doesn't handle like crap in games.

Personally, I'm more interested if developers allows you to compete against a field of identical cars, rather than allowing a mix of "similar" classes. We all know how a Mazda Miata fares against a Volkswagen New Beetle in GT3.

thepatriot @ Apr 24th 2007 8:16PM

ok first most people do not do not understand that making a game as detailed as Gt4 is very very difficult. The game was delayed just about a year, so cut the guys at Polyphony some slack. If you compare the driving physics (except damage and walls) of GT4 to any other console racing sim it is far superior. Forza and pgr are more casual and appeal to a larger spectrum of gamers but the GT series is more for the hard core gamer. This is the problem with GT unless you have a racing wheel and some skill than it is very hard to enjoy. It is far less forgiving than forza. So while GT is flawed what it is meant to do it does better than any other racing sim.