SGD '07: Wii Sports-like bowling game for PSN
Sony revolutionizes the games industry yet again by introducing a sports game that detects your motion through the controller! Instead of pressing buttons, one can hold the controller and move it as if it were a real bowling ball. We love the idea!
But in all honesty, we think that the SIXAXIS may not be as well-suited for this type of gameplay as other consoles. Joystiq's Kevin Kelly tried the game, and as we suspected, didn't have the easiest time with the game: "You literally flip the controller on its side, hold it with your thumb between the analog sticks, and then sweep your arm gracefully along an arc while holding and releasing one of the buttons to send your ball down the alley. Sound simple? Well, it is and it isn't. Holding the SIXAXIS like that feels really, really weird. It's like we're wired or programmed to hold that controller with both hands, and doing something like that makes our gamer genes cry out in pain. Although, in all honesty, once we got the hang of it, it wasn't all that bad."
So while not truly revolutionary, High Velocity Bowling should offer some motion-sensing fun for the Wii-less. Because it's coming through the PLAYSTATION Network, this experiment in copycat design should, at the very least, be affordable.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
humpty @ May 17th 2007 10:44AM
Ive played wii bowling.. i dont know what all the hoopla is about. I thought it was extremely lame.. although, i hate real bowling to begin with.
Travis @ May 17th 2007 10:54AM
Oh please. Joystiq will pick on the dumbest things when the PS3 is the topic.
How does a wii-mote make any sense for bowling? Holding a stick in no way is similar to holding a bowling ball. Holding the SIXAXIS controller upside down actually matches up with how your hand is positioned when holding a bowling ball. It makes a lot more sense.
And you gotta love Joystiq trashing the game for having better graphics than the Wii.
With that said, I'm not sure I'll be buying this game when it comes out. Since I already have a Wii, I don't think I need yet another bowling game with motion controls. However, I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being a much more enjoyable and realistic recreation of bowling.
jman @ May 17th 2007 11:39AM
woah typo..sony*
Kspraydad @ May 17th 2007 11:58AM
@yep/jman... more like Sony trying to appease the more infantile amongst us.
If enough PSN games come out like this I'm sure there is an aftermarket controller manufacturer that can take care of the 'hardcore' player.
kingofwale @ May 17th 2007 12:15PM
how many TVs will be broken becauses of this?
Lucas @ May 17th 2007 1:50PM
Oh No! How many HDTV's will be destroyed by Flying Six Axis's (or is it Six Axes). Sony should get the ball rolling and start sending out wrist straps.
Stef Geiger @ May 17th 2007 1:53PM
Hm. Ok, I know this might provoke an onslaught of responses from ignorant fanboys, but:
I'm kind of wondering how well this could possibly work. While the sixaxis most certainly can detect tilt information, the Wii controller can do that AND detect its position in space thanks to the sensor bar. That being said, it's really easy for the Wii controller to accurately detect movement. The sixaxis, however, can pretty much only use tilt information to extrapolate movement information. I'm pretty doubtful that the sixaxis can do the job anywhere near as well as the Wii.
Oh, and before people start calling me a nintendo fanboy: I really don't care for the Wii, and love my PS3.
theDude @ May 17th 2007 2:47PM
@Stef Geiger
If the Wii can detect the relative position of the Wii-mote in space, it certainly isn't doing that in Wii-Sports.
Wii-Sports bowling can be done with a flick of the wrist, it has nothing at all to do with spatial positioning, it has everything to do with the velocity and rotational positioning of the controller. For most Wii-Sports, it makes no difference if the sensor bar can detect the Wii-mote, all the Wii-Sports titles can work without the Wii-mote being visible to the sensor bar.
The problem here is that there are many that have bought the marketing and hype and have now become convinced that the Wii and it's Wii-mote do things that they just don't do. The only time that the Wii sensor bar comes into play is with games that you actually point the Wii-mote at the screen.
thatpspkid @ May 17th 2007 3:01PM
@2
Agree........... exactly what I wanted to say.
I would like a demo, just to try it out.
Kspraydad @ May 17th 2007 3:06PM
The Eye will add spatial information to PS3 and from what I've read it will be much more accurate than the Nintendo controller...but if I wanted a Wii I'd buy one.
Sammy @ May 17th 2007 3:07PM
I imagine this game will probably turn out to be fairly awful.
I also agree that the PS3 controller is certainly no substitute for the Wii's in games such as these.
But I do hope that more games on the network...maybe even free demos start trying to figure out applications for the motion control.
I am surprised Sony has not tried to woo a version of Super Monkey Ball for the PSN. The two seem like a perfect match. I imagine it would sell more as a download than it would achieve at retail.
theDude @ May 17th 2007 3:10PM
@Stef Geiger
I have to ask...
What do you think "tilt" is? It's motion, at times, very slight motion. It's all being detected by the springs, very tiny springs. That's all that they need to track motion, works the same way in the Wii-mote. There's no need to "know" where the controller is in space. You've made a very simple concept and implementation into something far more complicated than what it is.
theDude @ May 17th 2007 3:53PM
@bkvalheim
What?!?! Both the Wii-mote and the SIXAXIS use the same technology to detect motion. The Wii-mote also uses infrared which the SIXAXIS doesn't use, this does not detect spatial positioning in any way other than to determine which way you are pointing the Wii-mote at the TV, so games which require pointing use the sensor bar. The fact that the SIXAXIS doesn't use the same tech merely means that it can't be used as a pointing device like the Wii-mote can.
I can't get over how much misunderstanding there is as to how these devices actually work. The motion sensing on both controllers work in essentially the same way and from my experience with both, the SIXAXIS is more sensitive than the Wii-mote. This hardly makes one better than the other though.
Stef Geiger @ May 17th 2007 4:15PM
@14: ...No. Tilt information is not motion, it's ORIENTATION. The two have nothing to do with each other. I've explained this once before. All the PS3 controller can do is determine its orientation (read: NOT POSITION IN SPACE). Yes, theoretically things like centrifugal force from moving the controller in an arc can trick the controller into thinking it's oriented in a certain way, and this information can be extrapolated into motion detection, but that's nowhere near as effective/accurate as the Wii's controller. That's basically what this game would be doing. When you "swing" the controller, you trick it into thinking gravity is pulling on it from a different angle (the tilt sensors rely on gravity). Think about it - Games like Call of Duty 3 have you steer with the controller, but you have to orient it perpendicular to gravity for it to work.
As briefly as I can put it: The PS3 controller relies on what direction gravity is pulling it. If you move the controller in such a way that the orientation of gravity does not change relative to the controller (EG: lying it flat on a table and turning in around in circles), it can't tell. The only way it COULD detect that motion is if you were to spin the controller around fast enough to have the centrifugal forces trigger the tilt sensors (which are plates of silicon a few molecules apart, not springs)
whackmushrooms @ May 17th 2007 4:17PM
they should just make the bowling game in HOME work this way ... reggie would probably explode.
critter @ May 17th 2007 4:21PM
Ok wait you cows are hillarous. first off tilit in ps3 controller is not the same as wiiremote.
look it up second saying this a better. its a dang arcade verison and looks so gay.
btw who would by ps3 for just for home for an acrade blowing game. 6000 compare 250? were you can play right away. wow.
cows cows cows...
Stef Geiger @ May 17th 2007 4:28PM
English, please!
theDude @ May 17th 2007 5:01PM
@Stef Geiger
You are completely wrong. Tilt is translated velocity, otherwise known as motion. It has nothing to do with relative position in space which is what orientation is. Go back over the definition of your terms: "o·ri·en·ta·tion: position or alignment relative to points of the compass or other specific directions".
You suggest that the SIXAXIS can detect "orientation", which it cannot do. The "orientation" of the SIXAXIS is irrelevant to how it is used. You can be hanging upside down using the SIXAXIS and it does not know that it is upside down and it will still function the exact same way it does if you are right-side up. The Wii-mote on the other hand can detect positional orientation if the Wii-mote is pointed in the general vicinity of the "sensor bar". If you aim the Wii-mote away from the "sensor bar" then the Wii-mote's relative position/orientation is unknown to the Wii. Other than pointing style games, the Wii-mote and the SIXAXIS do the exact same thing.
Think about what you just said about steering in COD. If the controller is set perpendicular to gravitation then gravitation has zero to do with rotation on the horizontal axis as gravitation is a vertical component, but the SIXAXIS picks up the "motion" along the horizontal axis.
The SIXAXIS knows which way it is moving, on all six axes. That's it. Wii-sports bowling works perfectly fine if you hide the sensor bar or remove it completely. It has nothing at all to do with spatial positioning. The SIXAXIS works by detecting motion, not gravity. You need a brush up on your basic physics.
Stef Geiger @ May 17th 2007 5:28PM
My knowledge of physics is just fine, and I completely disagree with you about how the sixaxis determines tilt. It doesn't rely on motion to determine tilt, it relies on which way gravity is pulling it. Otherwise you'd have to calibrate the sixaxis every single time you start it up. Go ahead, start up the console with your controller perpendicular to the ground and start up Flow. According to you, the game will thing the controller is straight and if you tilt the controller even more from that position, Flow will interpret it as tilting. What will actually happen is that flow will know that the controller is perpendicular, and interpret THAT as tilting.
I don't know HOW you can achieve tilt detection without 1. Gravity as a constant point of reference or 2. Calibrating the controller every time you use it.
Popfrogs @ May 17th 2007 11:28PM
Damn Stef, give that other guy a bag of ice for that burn.
yep @ May 18th 2007 12:38AM
Ha!! I knew sont wanted to be just liked nintendo when they grew up!!!
John @ May 18th 2007 12:52AM
What this game offers if style and panache (that's a word that xbots can look up in the dictionary-- those who can read-- or did I mean... 'panoche'? Or... the even funner... Poontang? But silly me, I read)-- I love the Wii, and bowling on it, but doesn't this scream "better?" It's got lounge music, for chrissakes. It's got human-looking characters.
I can go to your house, and watch a Mii roll a ball, and I can roll that ball, too, with a wii-mote.
I can go to my house, and watch a well-animated human character roll a ball to great music.
Or, I can go to YOUR house, and watch you chainsaw people while blood runs all over the place.
The chicks are with me, or the Wii.
Tom @ May 18th 2007 2:10AM
Hello. I actually own a Wii and I can tell you that Stef Geiger is absolutely wrong when he states (as if he knows what he's talking about) that the "Wii controller can do that AND detect its position in space thanks to the sensor bar".
The sensor bar does not actually sense anything. It contains two infrared lights. The Wiimote contains a tiny infrared camera that sees these two points and determines 1)an X-Y coord, 2) the distance from the sensor bar by measuring the distance between the points. Nothing more. If the Wiimote is not pointed at the "sensor bar" it does not know how far away it is from anything. It only detects its own pitch, roll, and yaw. When you are bowling you do not point the Wiimote, so therefore it doesn't.
@theDude, You did a good job pointing out and explaining how Stef was wrong, and you almost have a full understanding, but you made the mistake of stating "you can be hanging upside down using the SIXAXIS and it does not know that it is upside down". The truth is the SIXAXIS actually does detect tilt by using gravity as a reference point AND detects motion through changes to its inertia.
Stef is, therefore, quite correct in his Flow example.
You're both right on some points and you're both wrong on some points. If we remove the inaccuracies of each of your explanations and unify all the correct parts, then we'll have the complete picture. I guess what I'm trying to say is... I KNOW ALL! Muahahaha!
Stef Geiger @ May 18th 2007 11:22AM
I know that the "Sensor bar" isn't really sensors but rather two IR LEDs (Hence why you can fool the Wiimote with two candles in the place of the sensor bar), but that's what everyone seems to call it these days. And while few games may USE this type of motion detection, it's absolutely possible. It'd also be really stupid NOT to use it, as you could achieve things you simply couldn't do with the controller's internal motion/tilt sensors. Actually, come to think of it, if the sensor bar was SOLELY to aid in pointing, you could probably get away with only one IR LED. However, with two, the controller gains the ability to figure out how far it is and where it is relative to the sensor bar. If the dots it sees from the sensor bar are directly in front of it but spaced out a lot, it can tell that it's very close to it. If the the dots are off to the left and really close together, it knows it's far away and over to the right.
theDude @ May 18th 2007 1:47PM
Everything comes down to relative frames of reference. There are at least three in volved in this situation. The frame of reference of the controller, the frame of reference of the person playing and the frame of reference of the television and then there are assumptions and definitions of expected use.
@Stef Geiger & Tom
I tested both my PS3 and my Wii. Results from the PS3 are that I was correct. I used Flow since you suggested it. For the sake of reference, call the axis along the horizontal from left to right (D-pad to the buttons) the X-axis, call the axis along the horizontal from front to back (lights and USB connection to the handles) the Z-axis and call the vertical (top to bottom) the Y-axis. In Flow, the Y-axis isn’t really used, we only look at the rotational aspects of the X and Z axes.
If you rotate the controller along the X-axis so that the bottom is the top and the front is the back, you maintain the up and down/forward and back axis while the Z-axis becomes inverted. This is bearing in mind the frame of reference of the controller has changed while the frame of reference of the player remains the same. This is what you’d expect if gravity is not a factor. The axis perpendicular to the axis the controller was rotated on is reversed.
If you then rotate the controller along the other axis, then both axes are reversed when related to the screen. However, the frame of reference of the controller is now upside down and backwards to its normal frame of reference. If a person were to then hang upside down and face away from the television (somehow being able to see the screen in the same orientation they would normally have), their frame of reference is normalized and the controller behaves in the exact same way as when they are right-side up and facing the television. So, again, gravity doesn’t matter to the SIXAXIS, the accelerometers in the controller work based upon motion, not on tilt or some orientation in space.
The Wii-mote works in the exact same way except that it has an IR camera and the “sensor bar”. The IR aspect of the Wii-mote is only for pointing at the screen with the Wii-mote. You need the “sensor bar” connected in order to go through the menus in Wii-Sports. Disconnecting the “sensor bar” when playing games, however, as I predicted, has no bearing at all on the gameplay. The Wii-mote and the SIXAXIS work based upon fundamentally the same accelerometer technology.
With a single reference point you can’t get the “mouse-like” behavior out of the Wii-mote. It depends on having two points to triangulate where the user is pointing at the screen.
@bkvalheim
You just have no clue about what you are talking about.
http://www.chiefengineer.org/content/content_display.cfm/seqnumber_content/2829.htm