Has Sony failed to understand the casual gamer?
In a recent interview with GI.biz, Nintendo VP of marketing, George Harrison, said that Sony and Microsoft have both attempted to woo the casual gamer but both failed due to a lack of understanding of the casual gamer. Specifically, Harrison mentioned the Sixaxis as Sony's failure:"We can already see some of the things they've tried. For last year's E3, at the last minute, Sony rushed out their Sixaxis controller as an effort to respond to the Wii remote. We saw Microsoft roll out Viva Piñata as their killer app for the Pokemon set. And neither of those worked really well.
It's true that Nintendo knows how to dominate a certain kind of casual gamer market, but it seems a bit disingenuous to be writing off the Sixaxis as a failed attempt to capture Nintendo's market share. Sony has never particularly positioned that motion-sensitivity of the Sixaxis as a lure to the casual gamer. They've marketed it as a feature that adds to existing games and allows you to do things you've never done before (see LAIR and Warhawk). It's true that they have utilized the motion sensitivity aspect of the controller to create more easily accessible games like Blast Factor, flOw and Super Rub-a-Dub, but unlike Nintendo, thats that's clearly not their whole focus.
That indicates the one of the biggest problems with Harrison's argument; Sony has been involved in the casual gamer market for a long time before the Sixaxis and have been very successful. In Europe in particular, Sony has done incredibly well with a number of titles targeted directly at the casual gamer. PlayStation 2 titles such as Singstar and Buzz! have sold millions of copies and show a clear dedication by Sony to not exclude the casual gamer. And already on the PlayStation 3 we've seen Sony utilize the PSN to make an array of more casual and arcadey type titles easily available. And looking into the immediate future you can see titles like Go Puzzle!, Singstar PS3, and Eye of Judgment further proving Sony's interest in providing games for all segments of the market.
While the PS3 may never get it's own Nintendogs or Pokemon, many gamers are fine with that. Sony, unlike Nintendo, has not forsaken the more hardcore players in favor of casual gamers - instead they've attempted to provide games for everyone. And while Nintendo feels that hardcore players will be satiated by Mario Strikers Charged and Mario Galaxies, I have a feeling a lot more hardcore players will be satisfied by God of War III and Warhawk.
So what do you think? Has Sony done enough to entice the casual gamer? And if not, is it worth following Nintendo's lead and ignore the more hardcore market in pursuit of the casual gamer?
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Gamble20 @ May 31st 2007 12:08AM
I don't think they are trying to market for the casual gamer...which is why they are struggling...
but give it some time...the Wii will die down and PS3 sales will eventually rise
silence @ May 31st 2007 12:52AM
I hate beating a dead horse but the price says it all when it comes to failing to understand the casual gamer. Hell the "casual gamer" couldn't even describe what BR is...
Nymo @ May 31st 2007 1:01AM
Don't You Mean 'BUZZ!'? I Can't Think Of A 'Play!' Off The Top Of My Head..
but yea, Sony Has Understood Casual Gaming, But They Don't Know How To Capitalize On It..
For America, At Least..
Europe Has Gotten Hits With Party Games, or as nintendo calls 'social' games, Like SingStar, EyeToy, And BUZZ!..
SCEA Is Slowly Catching Onto It, But It May Be A Little Too Late..
And I Suggest They Keep Doing That: Keep Us Hardcore-n'-other-core Gamers Satisfied With Quality Games, And While You're At It, Get Some Of Those Fun Little Party Games..
But What I Hope Sony Learns From Their Last Mistake Is To Really Advertise These Games.. EyeToy In The US Barely Shot Off With Many Ads Aimed To The Kids, While The Europe Had The Ads Aimed To Everyone, Which Is Very Well Intended For, And It's Been A Great Success..
SCEA Thankfully Really Advertised SingStar, And Hopefully The Same, If Not Better, Will Be The Same For BUZZ!, Or Even The Other Additions Of EyeToy Games..
Dylan Betts @ May 31st 2007 1:08AM
Nintendo is trying to appeal to kids with ADHD, but Sony isn't complaining. Sony is just Appealing to more serious gamers. The Wii will die down soon and the PS3 will be more appealing.
Chazz06 @ May 31st 2007 1:26AM
Well colin, I can't say that I fully agree with your argument. Sure the ps3 has some casual friendly things about it, however it seems as though sony isn't really trying to target this type of gamer as much as nintendo is.
I think because of the nintendo ds and it's ability to lure new gamers, ninty was hoping that the Wii would do the same thing with the wiimote. It's all about "how" games were played. I remember Iwata saying that since the Wii controller is shaped like a remote control, more people wouldn't be intimidated by it, which is arguably true.
Also, saying that Nintendo has "forsaken" hardcore gamers is a bit of a stretch. If anything, I would say the Wii has more for everybody. It's nintendos kiddie image that keeps creeping up, even though it has plenty games that cater to a mature core gamer. Damn I sound like reggie right now...
Sony's price doesn't allow a casual gamer to jump into gaming quickly. I would say that the ps3 is more for a casual techie because of it's raw power and features. Until the price drops i think you won't be seeing casual gamers jumping on board quit yet. Sony hopes that the blu ray as a movie player attracts people. Sony's strategy is for long term effect.
Pretty much if blu ray doesn't take off, non gamers will not buy the ps3.
Stef Geiger @ May 31st 2007 1:50AM
Everyone talks about how smart Nintendo is for targeting the casual market, but they seem to forget about casual gamers: They're CASUAL GAMERS. That means they barely spend any money on videogames. That being said, the Wii will probably always have weak software sales with respect to its installed base, since it's all casual gamers.
Ninegauger @ May 31st 2007 2:26AM
Well since they profit on the hardware they don't lose by default with low attach rates plus they know that of all the titles sold for the Wii most will be first party so they'll be making money hand over fist. They'll get a mega-hit, they'll do fine... I'm curious how fine though. We'll see.
Sony's mistake, I think, was overestimating brand loyalty among the hardcore gamer. The 360 had a decent line up of games before the PS3 came out and many were tempted and now's there's kind of a momentum in the 360's direction. Sony certainly isn't helped by the its game line up and price.
Hobofuzz @ May 31st 2007 2:38AM
I think the terms "hardcore" and "casual" gamer are a load of bull. A gamer is a gamer.
MisterTwoTurbo @ May 31st 2007 3:42AM
Nintendo sure has their heads up their own arses right now. The Wii like everyone said is just a quick fad. It's cheap, and doesn't do anything else. Who can wave a controller and look at ugly graphics all day. Sony is taking the "All in one" approach. Games, Movies, Media, Networking, etc. etc. They will have games that are not just visually pleasing, but very fun to play without too much remote-moving gimmick. And as for the term "Casual Gamers" it really means the general public, which 1. Doesn't know anything about games. 2. Not very high on budget. 3. Probably doesn't know what a HDTV is. When the world's technology gets a bit cheaper and 1080p TV's get to the masses, that $200 Wii aint playing no HD content. So who really knows how things will play out, all I know is that it's going to be Microsoft vs PS3 for a long time. For the real gamers.
Thomas @ May 31st 2007 5:25AM
People want the PS3, but they can't afford it... the Wii isn't that great, but when its your only option, because a child or parent you know that 600 dollars is out of the question, what else is there. Casual gamer, probably willing to spend about 300 on a console.
Bored @ May 31st 2007 7:31AM
I think Sony's marketing was crap.
Seriously, what was that "All i want is a PSP?" blog sh*t all about? That's for amateurs.
They should take hints from Microsoft, who are the masters of propaganda via astroturfing since the 90's.
kingofwale @ May 31st 2007 7:39AM
>I think Sony's marketing was crap.
yeah, calling their own console "Wii" is just marketing genius, right?
if you want to target casual gamer, you win some and you lose some, you win some by selling a lot of console. you lose some by having 50$ of your console collecting dust in some old grandpa's basement.
bearattack79 @ May 31st 2007 7:53AM
When the Wii fad dies off PS3 sales will go up? Are you guys dilusional. The Ps3 lack of sales has nothing to do with Nintendo or MS, Its more to do with the lack of compitition.
When the games come the sales will go up. The casual gamer rents games, lots of them. He/She will play the first few levels of said game and get bored, then rent another.
When a real good game (not just a game) comes out He/She will most likely buy it.
When PS3 aquires games PS3 sales go up its that simple.
A gamer is nothing without games. Hardcore or Casual.
bearattack79 @ May 31st 2007 7:56AM
Wii = Hypercolor.
OrganicShadow @ May 31st 2007 9:14AM
I think Nintendo WANTS the SIXAXIS to be Sony's attempt to grab casual gamers, when in reality it's not. They want this to be Sony's only line of defense, because they know that all they really have right now are casual games and casual gamers.
Nintendo: come out with a slew of non-nintendo-mascot games, with various rating levels, stimulate third party support beyond boring pathetic party games, and then come back and talk. Until then I will be dusting my little white dry erase board of a console off now and again to make sure it doesn't get too nasty. God forbid I actually play a game on the thing...
Nero @ May 31st 2007 9:31AM
Sony have Singstar coming out soon which will probably appeal to alot of people. Its not going to sell the consoles but it will more than likely tempt people since the PS2 singstars are so popular for some reason. :P
Travis @ May 31st 2007 9:33AM
It'd probably be foolish to target casual gamers at this stage in the game. No matter how you spin it, the PS3 is just too expensive. There is no sense in making casual games if the console isn't a casual purchase.
However, I think it's possible to make games that appeal to more than just casual gamers. Nintendogs is a casual game that pisses off most regular gamers because there's not much of a game aspect to it. Stuff like Calling all Cars is good middle of the road stuff. If Sony builds up their catalog of downloadable games they could be in a very good position when they finally lower the PS3 price.
Finally, the problem with Microsoft's Viva Pinata is there is nothing casual about it. I've heard it's a good game, but I tried it and I couldn't believe the amount of shit it pops up for me to read and understand just in the first hour. The game really doesn't let you just casually check in and take care of your pinatas, you have to be on top of every damn thing going on. This is totally a game who's intent was to be casual and missed the point entirely.
Matt B @ May 31st 2007 9:57AM
At least we don't have waggle controls on the sixaxis.
Popfrogs @ May 31st 2007 10:21AM
Casual gamers don't buy much of anything. When you're taking a $200 hit per console sold, the last thing you need is a few million numbskulls that buy one game and shelve the console for a year.
Hardcore gamers buy more games, period. However they are also more discriminating. They recognize a bad/crappy game alot faster than a casual gamer will. It's a tricky market. Then throw in the media hub guys that want their consoles to do everything including play games. This is an emerging market which continues to grow as home theater components get cheaper and the quality increases exponentially.
Sony is playing these markets properly. The movie fans (ask anyone on AVSForums) prefer blu-ray and the PS3 is a no-brainer. Sure, Sony loses money on these guys...until you remember that they own a ton of movie studios who make money selling br discs. So while one division may lose $200 for that PS3 sold with no games, another makes money on br disc sales. Don't forget the tie-in with Sony HDTVs also. I'm surprised Sony isn't throwing in a PS3 for free with their biggest and most expensive sets to complete the blu-ray experience.
When you discount Sony's tactics, keep in mind that they're a juggernaut with 100 heads. They're not Nintendo, which strictly does games and lives and dies by that. They're not Microsoft which produces bad new operating systems (Vista I'm looking at you). They can leverage any and all divisions against the market and will succeed despite 6 months of bad press from paid off astroturfing bloggers.
WhackMushroom @ May 31st 2007 10:45AM
so what? nintendo is going to say .. "we commened sony's biz model .. it caters to the segment that we are hanging out to dry"?
like post 19. points out .. sony's issue right now is not reaching out to casual gamers its the god damn price .. personally i think 600 is great for what i got with my ps3 and keep getting with each firmware update .. but i make over 200k a year ... although i am a hardcore gamer my demographic should hardly be sony's main dem
shase @ May 31st 2007 10:45AM
He said sixaxis wasnt implemented that well even now but neither is the wiimote. Only a handful of games really used the wiimote's control scheme and didn't look like it was tacked on. Well we shall see in a couple of years if people get tired of the wiimote scheme or not.
Matt B @ May 31st 2007 10:53AM
I gave up on nintendo after the 64. Never thought twice about buying anything from them since because it is the same rehashed stuff over and over. I've grown up.
erac3rx @ May 31st 2007 11:11AM
Couldn't agree more with Stef at #8 and Popfrogs at #21. Casual gamers don't buy a lot of games. Zelda is currently the only million-seller on Wii... why? Because that's the game any hardcore gamer would buy if they bought a Wii (I know I did).
Everyone that doesn't have a PS3 hates on it, because it's 'too expensive'. It's too expensive for the casual gamer right now, but I'm not alone in thinking that even at $600 it is a FAR better value than the Wii. Bluray, wireless controls for all PS1, PS2 and PS3 games, media streaming from my pc, upscaling... Meanwhile my Wii isn't even connected to a TV right now. Partly because I just moved, but partly because now that I'm done with Zelda, Trauma Center, and Paper Mario the fact that it doesn't do anything BUT games is a huge negative. I hear the 'all I want it to do is games!' argument all the time and I still don't get it. I'm a hardcore gamer and I have been for over 20 years. Still got my NES, SNES, TurboDuo, Saturn, Dreamcast, N64... but none of those are connected to a TV unless I want to break out an old game. I wonder how many parents have been disappointed to find out that the Wii they just bought for their kid's play room doesn't even play dvds?
Iother @ May 31st 2007 11:18AM
Does the PS3 even adresses the "hardcore gamer". Sony promised to ship over 6 million PS3's at the end of March. Now they haven't sold even 4 million consoles.
Isn't it possible that the hardcore gamer also had a limited budget, and he still wants some quality for its money. He can spend 600$ on a video card that will let him play all his games he already has and will have.
Look at Oblivion, the PC version has better visuals then the console versions and the framerate is higher. Hey if the resolution has to be better of the framerate higher, just wait 4 months and buy an even better videocard.
Besides, if you are that hardcore gamer you'll know that PC-games are cheaper and better.
Sony has to face that it only sells because there is SONY printed on each PS3. And people that have a PS2 expect the same from a PS3.
Poor consumers...
VerticalEvent @ May 31st 2007 11:20AM
If you ask me, Sony is doing a bad job marketing the PS3. They market it as a game console, and, at it's current price and cheaper competitors, it's not working.
Sony needs to market it more as a Multi-media centrer, where it's an ideal centre piece for any kind of entertainment system. It plays movies and music, as well as can function as a normal computer, and play the latest in games. There needs to be commercials out there that capitalize on this fact, so that, when people are thinking of upgrading their entertainment centres, they will consider buying a PS3 for it. If they buy one, they may consider buying a game or two for it as well, since, they have the power, and may buy more in the future.
Also, Sony, a multi-media company, needs to start tieing in all of their different departments into the PS3, which is a multi-media platform. They should have popular movie trailers make their appearance on the PS3 first, and have every news-entertainment program in the world, informing of the new trailer coming out on the PSN for the PS3, and build a buzz for the PS3 from Hollywood. Have promotional music tracks from artists signed to Sony for free downloads, to bring more interest to the music side and music freaks. Create a new file format, .ps3, that only allows the content to be played on the PS3, by both encoding it and also disallowing it's transfer to other devices (someone will hack it eventually, but, most casual people wouldn't bother with it).
Sony needs to start using the PS3 as a flagship for the whole company. Use the PS3 to promote Sony Pictures and Sony Music, and use Sony Pictures and Sony Music to promote the PS3.
Xiru @ May 31st 2007 11:29AM
Nintendo has been very aggressive in taking the casual market. That is fine and all, but I could care less about casual gaming and i'm hoping Sony sticks to hardcore gaming. Of course the PS3 is doing bad right now, I went to ebgames the other day to trade in some stuff for a PS3 game and there was honestly nothing I wanted to use my store credit on. I own 6 games. This is bad. Sony needs to pump those games out and they are. After July, sales should pick up steadily and keep growing until they get strongest around April 2008. Its Dec 2008 where Sony will be its strongest. By then the Wii will have its best titles out and be pretty much on a decline. 360 should continue to be strong for most of the lifecycle of the PS3.
Xiru @ May 31st 2007 11:34AM
Also, Harrison said the Sixaxis hasn't been used well yet. Well I could say the same for the Wiimote. Even the game it was made for(Wii Sports), isn't perfect. Just look at the review for Mortal Kombat Armageddon in the latest game informer. They were complaining that the controls take away from the game. This is a selling feature of the system and its actually taking away from gameplay. Nintendo needs to offer classic controller support for all games. Its a simple fix. Anyway, hopefully Folklore is awesome. The demo comes out tommarow in Japan and the game around the 7th of June. If most of it is english then I have my 1st of many awesome games to look forward to this summer.
mccomber @ May 31st 2007 11:41AM
Nintendo's problem is that they are riding high on the whims of the general public, which can change very, very quickly. If Nintendo can keep the Wii relevant and on top for the lifespan of the ps3 and 360, I'll be surprised. I've met two people whose main reason for buying a wii was "they are hard to find, so when it was sitting on the shelf at the store I bought it." How many games do you think these sort of people end up buying? Yes, it's another console sold which is good for those numbers, but it doesn't do much to shake the image Nintendo has, and seemingly wants to foster. The Wii is a toy, and people buy and forget about it accordingly.
At this point already, how many of their casual gamers still pull out their wii and play with it?
Good lord, those lines just write themselves!
Popfrogs @ May 31st 2007 11:44AM
@Dax:
I'm with you on that. I can't name 5 games I want that are coming out for the PC over the next year, let alone the next 2 years, but I can name at least 8 must-haves for the PS3.
The PC gaming market is on the decline, no doubt about it. Most people are getting tired of sitting in front of a tiny monitor when they can sit on the couch and play online with a big fat HDTV and 5.1 sound.
Matt B @ May 31st 2007 12:02PM
@ DAX
I bet they were nice games, but I had other priorities at the time.
SKI @ May 31st 2007 12:12PM
Nintendo did not "forsake" the hardcore gamer, they are trying to reach all audiences (much more then the PS3). There are some great hardcore games for the Wii. Godfather, Manhunt 2, No More Heroes, and NiGHTS are all games for the hardcore market, and these are just the ones I came up with off the top of my head. Nintendo as a game developer doesn't like making bloody, gory games, but doesn't care what 3rd parties put on there.
samfish @ May 31st 2007 2:30PM
First off, you guys still saying the wii is a fad are truly delusional. First it would flop, then people would forget about it in a month, then it was 3 months, 6 months, going on 7.
It's here to stay and I'll bet any one of you a penny down that after the first major wave of PS3 and 360 games are released from 3rd parties throughout this year, you'll see a LOT of studios starting work on "hardcore" Wii games.
"It's true that Nintendo knows how to dominate a certain kind of casual gamer market, but it seems a bit disingenuous to be writing off the Sixaxis as a failed attempt to capture Nintendo's market share. Sony has never particularly positioned that motion-sensitivity of the Sixaxis as a lure to the casual gamer."
Maybe not, but you CAN'T deny that the Sixaxis is a blatant response to the Wiimote, either.
"Sony has been involved in the casual gamer market for a long time before the Sixaxis and have been very successful. In Europe in particular, Sony has done incredibly well with a number of titles targeted directly at the casual gamer. PlayStation 2 titles such as Singstar and Buzz! have sold millions of copies and show a clear dedication by Sony to not exclude the casual gamer."
But the difference is that Sony is just kinda putting those titles out there. They aren't actively targeting the casual/party market.
Nintendo, despite what some people say, HASN'T given up on the "hardcore" gamer, though. The Big Three are all "hardcore" titles, and there's a few good 'mature' titles coming out, too. Granted, there aren't yet any "megaton 3rd party games slated for the Wii, but I suspect those'll come soon enough.
If anything, Nintendo isn't paying ENOUGH attention to the "casual" gamer. All they have is Wii Sports, Wii Play and arguably Rayman and Tiger Woods.
At least us "hardcore"/"casual hardcore" types has Zelda, Sonic, Paper Mario, Red Steel, Godfather and more.
That said, Nintendo's biggest mistake with the Wii, in my opinion, was failing to include the Classic Controller with it. Games like Fire Emblem and even SPM seem to be Nintendo's way of saying that you DON'T and SHOULDN'T feel obligated to use motion controls just because they're there...which is true; but the lack of a CC out of the box forces one's hand otherwise.
"Just look at the review for Mortal Kombat Armageddon in the latest game informer. They were complaining that the controls take away from the game. This is a selling feature of the system and its actually taking away from gameplay."
That's great. There have been other people who have said that the controls are easier, too. It's really obvious that the Wii has made a schism in the gaming community, where people either 'get it' or don't.
...on that note, I can't imagine playing MK with the Wiimote would be comfy, either...
#28:
Sony marketing the PS3 as a media center really WOULD doom it. People generally DON'T like all-in-one devices. It also doesn't help that the PS3 has a horrible UI. It's passable, but is WAY to confusing for the mass market. Call them stupid, if you like, but it's true.
But the main reason it'll flop as a media center? It's called the PLAYSTATION 3! "Casual techies", who they'd have to target, would pass on it because they won't be able to get over the mental hurdle of buying a gaming console, if anything.
If Sony was REALLY serious about getting an all-in-one media center on the mass market, they probably would have been better off making the PS3 an ACTUAL Media Center with game playing abilities. Granted, that would have been real risky...but then, so was the Wii.
Contrary to what #21 said, Sony is playing the markets VERY poorly. They're completely fracturing themselves. It's a classic example of 'jack of all trades, master of none'.
VerticalEvent @ May 31st 2007 3:09PM
Samfish: Contrary to what you believe, people do like all-in-one device. People are buying Cellphones with MP3 and picture technology built into it, and willing to pay a few extra hundred dollars for it. Blackberry phones are popular with the business crowd, and feature the functionality of a laptop and a cell phone.
People have turned their computers/laptops into media centers, and do everything on them. They watch Videos, Music, play games on them. People are always interested in getting the content they have on their computers to that big screen they keep in the living room, and, with the latest firm ware release, the PS3 is in a position to do that relatively easily.
I find it interesting that you mentioned NiGHTS as a hardcore title, but, as far as I know, nothing has been released about it. I consider it more of a nostalgia title, as, right now, it plays on the memories that people had of the first one.
The SIXAXIS was in development before the Wii-mote was announces. Either it was planned to make it into the PS3, or that Sony decided to speed up development on it.
James @ May 31st 2007 4:11PM
I have always hated the playstation controllers, and I always will.
Popfrogs @ May 31st 2007 4:38PM
@verticalevent:
Well said. I have yet to see a single 'hardcore title' on the Wii. It just can't pump out the graphics, music, or anything else.
If you are a hardcore gamer that wants hardcore games you don't even consider the Wii as an option.
Jay @ May 31st 2007 5:12PM
"Sony rushed out their Sixaxis controller as an effort to respond to the Wii remote"
Yeah, right. Sony saw the Wiimote then went back to the lab and conceived, designed, prototyped, tested then finalised the Sixaxis in a few weeks.
What's this guy on? He's sounds like an Apple fanboy - you know, the type that claims LG copied the iPhone even though the specs of the Korean were released over a year before the world saw the prototype iPhone.
samfish @ May 31st 2007 5:25PM
"Contrary to what you believe, people do like all-in-one device. People are buying Cellphones with MP3 and picture technology built into it, and willing to pay a few extra hundred dollars for it. Blackberry phones are popular with the business crowd, and feature the functionality of a laptop and a cell phone."
Hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.
How many people actually use their cell phones are MP3 players? Picture viewers? Cameras? Portable gaming?
How many people instead own a cell phone AND choose to instead use an iPod, a digital camera and a DS/PSP?
. . .
Exactly!
What you apparently fail to grasp or choose to ignore is that while people will BUY these all-in-one devices, they only use it for ONE purpose. Usually it's main purpose.
Hence why the PS3 will never EVER be accepted as a media center. It's already established as a gaming system. 98% of people just aren't going to buy a gaming system to use as a media center.
That doesn't mean that can't change, of course. The iPhone looks like it might finally blow the lid off the whole cell phone/MP3 player being separate thing.
But can Sony manage to rebrand the Playstation as a media center? Judging by the PSP, I REALLY don't see it happening.
"People have turned their computers/laptops into media centers, and do everything on them. They watch Videos, Music, play games on them. People are always interested in getting the content they have on their computers to that big screen they keep in the living room, and, with the latest firm ware release, the PS3 is in a position to do that relatively easily."
Yes, they do those things, but it's dishonest to say they're using their computers as "media centers".
It's only recently that the concept of linking your computer's media capabilities with your TV has started to become a mainstream idea...and even then, no one has really done it right, yet. Even AppleTV's, arguably the most user friendly, well known option, sales are kind of crappy. It's certainly not the like the iPod, at least.
Also, I didn't mention NiGHTS as a hardcore title. I'd be interested in what you consider a "hardcore" game, though. If you're going to say 'mature' games with violence/swearing/sex, than we disagree. I consider Zelda and Sonic&tSR to be more "hardcore" than a game like Motor Storm.
You are right about NiGHTS being linked with nostalgia, though. But Nintendo's core audience has ALWAYS been big on nostalgia, I think. Sonic games always sold better on the GC, for example. I'd be willing to bet an old-school Mega Man game or new Castlevania would do better on Nintendo's console, too.
"Well said. I have yet to see a single 'hardcore title' on the Wii. It just can't pump out the graphics, music, or anything else.
If you are a hardcore gamer that wants hardcore games you don't even consider the Wii as an option."
I'm glad to hear you didn't buy God of War II or FFXII, then.
CLEARLY it's graphics and sound are not "hardcore" enough because it's on the PS2, right..?
You could easily make the case that the Wii doesn't have any "hardcore" games, but at least be honest about it.
Andrew @ May 31st 2007 5:44PM
I don't know about you but this is the only console that i haven't been able to buy that i wanted to buy. I got $400 limit... to young to get a job and well i got a wii and a 360 thanx to saved up birthdays. The fact is the 700 pricpoint kills me... oh i live in Canada. On top of that i am happy playing metroid Prime 3, Link, and Super smash bro. if you don't have any interest in these 3 games... your not human. And by the Mario soccer thing they meant it might attract more hardcore people, mainly from europe... who actually like soccer.
vizunary @ May 31st 2007 5:52PM
@ Samfish
"Contrary to what #21 said, Sony is playing the markets VERY poorly. They're completely fracturing themselves. It's a classic example of 'jack of all trades, master of none'."
Master of none, eh, are you a dumbass? Do you even realize that Sony is the LARGEST electronics company on the planet? Or that Sony Pictures was the no 1 picture studio 4 out of the last 6 years?
Here is why "casual gamers" and wiiboys and girls really like the wii:
http://iiw.ytmnd.com/
Most of your "hardcore" games are PS2 ports LOL... I'll give you Zelda and Metroid, but Twilight was a crap GC game pawned off onto the wii, pathetic. My ex use to really like those party games, so if she is what represents a casual gamer then great Nintendo can have em. She played the same Mario Party for like 8 mos.
Iother @ May 31st 2007 6:29PM
The fact that no games actually had implemented SIXAXIS controls actually is a big hint it was lets say rushed.
What i am missing is the definition of a "hardcore gamer". Actually you guys say that Sony wants the hardcore gamer to buy their stuff. Yet i haven't seen any specific about what such a gamer actually want. (and given the sales, how many hardcore gamers are there?). Do they want graphics, a good story perhaps, lots of blood or do they just want a shiny thing that plays their games.
Look at was Sony tries to do, they want hardcore gamers to download old games, buy blueray movies, make their own virtual home,...
The question i have is what does hardcore gaming has to do with downloading old games, and playing movies. Maybe virtual space? Would a hardcore gamer not spend an hour downloading 10 DVD's to its hard drive for the latest graphics, the fastest load times.
And even if i try to come up with an answer: what did they do before the PS3. Most computer games come on a CD! Of course harcore games only come on DVD or recently only on blue-ray but what did they do before the PS3.
I think that the whole "hardcore gamer" concept is just a made up illusion. M-maybe just maybe Sony is trying to adress a market that doesn't even exist.
What if people only buy the PS3 for it being the follow-up of the famous PS2. Think about it: the Xbox had to fail, the GameCube and N64 were considered "flops" and the Nintendo DS was a gimmick that would only last some months. Of course the Wii is just presenting bad graphics and a hardcore gamer does notice that. Yet i bet that same inexistent hardcore gamer can see that XBox 360 games just look like PS3 games an when PS3 games will look better then XBox 360 games we will already see DirectX 11 games rising.
So what is a hardcore gamer, what does he wants, and what does the PS3 to satisfy him(her)?
SKI @ Jun 1st 2007 12:21AM
"If you are a hardcore gamer that wants hardcore games you don't even consider the Wii as an option."
If you even think you are a hardcore gamer and can't consider the Wii an option, you aren't a hardcore gamer. Any fanboy/girl who follows one brand and forsakes all others can never be a true hardcore gamer, IMO.
alex @ Jun 1st 2007 12:43AM
Nintendo is just freakin jealous that there console is only selling because its cheap, I mean if the PS3 or the XBOX 360 was $250 they would put Nintendo bankrupt. The sixaxis isn't a response to the Wiimote it's just somethin to make the PS3 better and Viva Pinta deffinatley isn't somethin to challenge Pokemon I mean Viva Pinta is for 3 year olds and Pokemon is way way way different then Viva Pinta.
Iother @ Jun 1st 2007 11:26AM
Why would that not be possible, some amateurs already made XBox 360 controllers with motion controls (DIY). And since it's only reading some values coming from a chip (if needed to speed up noise reduction by software) and voila you have yet copied another idea.
fact remains that that presentation was the first time devellopers heard about the feature. It was not documented, not registred nor implemented.
And if they were even doubting about implementing it, they were absolutly convinced after seeing Nintendo having it.
We have seen Sony making a innovative controller, and we all know how that went: just another buck design cost in the PS3 price for something they shouldn't have even bothered to invent.
Robotuna @ Jun 4th 2007 3:46AM
I think that Sony’s major flaw with the PS3 is that they insisted that all games on it are on Blue-ray. BR is still a new technology that still has what can be considered a major competitor (can anyone remember the DVD+R and DVD-R wars). By Sony using blue-ray on this system they added several hundreds dollars to the ticket price. Any yes, it can play the movies now, but I am very wary of Sony after the PS2 hardware fiasco. I still have my original PS2 and while it will still play my games just fine it will not recognize let alone play any of my DVD’s. And this came from a large, diversified company that makes its living selling media products like DVD players.
Like someone posted on the DMC4 thread, there are very few games that come close to using the 9 GB you can get on a normal dual-layer DVD. So while this may be looking forward on Sony’s part, they shot themselves in the foot in the short term. Most people I know who are more casual gamers will spend $250 on a Wii, and many would even consider paying $300 for an Xbox 360, but none of them would pay $600 for a system that plays blue-ray discs they don’t own. Basically Sony is going to have to suck it up and hold out for that magic time when they will lower the system price and have more than a handful of good and/or exclusive games that will get the medium-core and casual gamers to buy the system.
Oh, and by the way, I would rather be in charge of a company that sells 4 million copies of a console than one that only sells 500,000 copies in the same period, regardless of how many games will eventually be bought per console. Nintendo wins out because they also own the rights to most of the most popular titles on the system, where as most of my favorite PS2 games and most of the ones people hype on for the PS3 are not affiliated with Sony in any way so Sony only gets the $10 licensing and blue-ray fees.
And that’s my two cents worth; take it with a grain of salt :)
Lucasbbadur @ Jun 9th 2007 7:20PM
I'm a casual and I love the ps3 :]
B1gC72 @ Jun 11th 2007 12:20PM
Well the price automatically cuts out the casual gamer honestly. What is going to make a person who has never played a video game before want to spend $600 on a video game console? Sony does do a very acceptable job of creating a casual environment via games, but you have to have the console first. Nintendo knows something about the casual gamer and markets their product at a price where the non-gamers can stand to feed their curiosity about the gaming world. Sony is definitely focused on the hardcore gamer with its bluray and processing power but honestly, a lot of gamers I know don't know what bluray is and couldn't care less about SPE's and CPU's.
Stormkeep @ Jun 12th 2007 8:47PM
As a pretty hardcore gamer myself, I would say that I could care less if Sony is failing to understand the "casual gamer." Maybe it's selfish on my part, but I want a console and games that I like and will buy.
The Wii is a great machine for casual gamers, and I'm not bashing it, but personally have no intention of buying one or any of the games for it. It isn't relevant how many games, even if great ones, come out on the Wii...it's yesterday's technology. There's plenty of old games for the PS2 I could get in the discount bins for when I want games of that technology level.
Alexander Mu @ Jun 13th 2007 12:29AM
Sony's issue is pretty simple. They mishandled every aspect of the PS3 from the word go. They did not come out swinging, and it is impossible for anyone to argue against facts: The PS3 did not have a good launch in the face of its competition.
They did not secure the games from companies who MADE the PS2 what it is. The launch lineup was DISMAL when you considered you were paying $600 for the machine as an upgrade. The software it came with was buggy, and the features it touted are either matched by it's next gen competitor via software updates', or only beginning to be used to any degree. If you can get a similar experience with a negligible loss in visual or audio quality, people will steer towards the cheaper toy. The Wii...well, who knows about that thing, it's basically destroyed everyones expectations, and not played by any of the same basic rules other consoles have followed for the last fifteen years.
For all the jokes fanboys will crack about a given system, the PS3 has a software trickle that matches the Wii, pound for pound. The Wii has a strong lineup in the near future with titles that gamers across multiple generations recognize as almost guaranteed hits. Sony has managed to lose the majority of it's major names to Microsoft, of all companies, either via shared ports or limited exclusivity in favor of the 360. Who allowed that to happen? I mean, seriously, what compelled them to not secure these games sooner? They could have stuffed the 360 this year if they could stop the rampant speculation on their hot properties.
You can claim it's 'only' six months of bad press. Realistically, six months can quickly become an eternity for a console to be openly mocked and ridiculed by developers and mainstream press alike. It's hardly a media conspiracy, it's what Sony had coming to them for their terrible hype train surrounding their box, for their inability or unwillingness to lock down games on the PS3 so a japanese developer didn't even think twice about whether or not to support the 360 or the PS3.
The casual/hardcore bs is simply that, bs. You are not more hardcore if you spend more money than someone else for a gaming machine, you simply just happen to have money.
People would PAY $600 bucks for a PS3 if it was a gaming machine. Right now, it's a blu-ray player that happens to play games. Extra features be damned, Sony wasn't the leader of the pack last generation because of all the cool things the PS2 could do outside of gaming. That it could play DVD's was a bonus feature. It was a cheap system (near the end) with a crap ton of games that (wait for it) gamers (!!!) wanted to play. That's it. No gimmicks. No horsepower advantage. Just the game library alone. The special features on a PS3 don't act as a compelling factor because they don't mean anything to the average gamer. Why pay more money for stuff you might not be able to use without buying even more expensive equipment to really get what you paid for? Where as the PS2 was a console first, the PS3 is a movie player first, for the moment.
While it is true Sony doesn't need the system itself to be successful because of potential sales it will benefit from in the Blu-Ray market, that is FAR from a sure thing. Sony is the only company right now that is trying to keep its console's head above the water by relying something other than a gaming demographic. Not the hardcore, not the casual, but gamers as a whole. It's still taking a licking, regardless of what other divisions profit during this mess,and it's a damning indication of where their priorities lie.
There is no excuse for the PS3 to be in the situation it is now. It deserved a better team behind it. Now it gets to spend the rest of this year playing catch up in Japan and the US, and breaking even in Europe. For it to catch up, it would need an unprecedented increase in sales across the board. It would need every single one of its franchise games out this year, on time, and they will need ridiculous attach rates. They need to smash Halo into the dirt, because for all the wisecracks some of you might make about 'Xbots' you cannot compare the hype behind Metal Gear to the hype that games like Gears or Halo had/have. Metal Gear has NEVER done as well as a GTA or Halo, for that matter. Final Fantasy is really the PS3's last serious system seller, and don't fool yourselves, that alone isn't going to turn things around.
They need a price cut. A drastic one. They need games, now. They need to pull off a coup of some kind in the software side of things, or they will keep getting sniped like this.