Square Enix CEO calls PS3 and Xbox 360 "over-engineered"
The CEO of Square Enix had some strong words about the state of console development recently. Speaking with the Financial Times about the company's recent decision to develop Dragon Quest IX only for Nintendo's DS system, Yoichi Wada believed certain consoles were "over-engineered for today's gaming environment," saying "there are too many specs." The CEO provided elaboration, stating "you also need a high definition TV, a broadband connection and a deep knowledge of gaming," and clarified that in "a year or two" the consoles would fare better when they are not as "mismatched."We'd have to disagree, only because we're a part of the hardcore category of gamers that are always thirsting for faster and better hardware. Broadband has been a staple of our diet for the last ten years and most of us already have an HDTV in our living rooms, if not a second one for the bedroom. But Mr. Wada's statements were made about today's global gaming consumer, and we'd have to agree that in a year or two, the PS3 will likely come down in price and become more accessible to those that (still) haven't yet adopted to HDTV or broadband technologies. Again, Mr. Wada was elaborating on recent decisions for the company to focus on handheld development due to their widespread appeal and market share (units sold).
As always, we'd like to invite your thoughts and comments on Mr. Wada's recent statements as they pertain to our console of preference. Should the PS3 have been watered down, so as to cater more to a global audience immediately (aka, those without broadband or HDTV's right now)? One could assume that in doing so, the price point would be lower, making the entry a lot easier to swallow for non-hardcore types. Along that line of thought, a second and third assumption can be made in that PS3 sales might have been higher and third-party support might be increased due to the system's affordability and widespread appeal. What do you think?
[Via DS Fanboy]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
dalejrfanfreak @ Jun 12th 2007 12:38PM
I bought a PS3 and I don't have an HDTV so what does that makes me? PS3's aren't selling because there's no frickin games for em! I've beat all my games so far and now i've got nothing to do but play F1 online.
jastyle521 @ Jun 12th 2007 12:40PM
in ten years its still going to sell just like the ps2. the Wii on the other hand will loose its "fun" factor because it will be out dated in two years.
sonicyouth @ Jun 12th 2007 12:41PM
Can you say, "Cop-out?"
fwacce @ Jun 12th 2007 12:41PM
No, the PS3 is perfect as is. If anyone doesn't want to develop for a next-gen system, then they can make a game for the PS2, where the installed base is the largest out there. No one is forcing anyone to stop developing for the almighty PS2 in order to make something for the ahead of its time PS3.
Jay @ Jun 12th 2007 12:49PM
PS3 and 360 over-engineered? Is that a joke?
More like the Wii resembles Soviet-era military hardware. A CRT TV looks hi-tech next to that white box, let alone a REAL next-gen console.
Andir3.0 @ Jun 12th 2007 12:51PM
I think it boils down to this. The DS is and Wii could essentially be a portable sytem. The technology in the device could be adapted in the Wii to make it portable if you replaced the DVD drive. There really is nothing inside the box that couldn't be removed in favor of portability.
Saying that, you could see a separation of gamer types. Those that prefer the pickup and go type games on small screen and maybe not so high-def, and those that prefer to sit in front of the big screen and enjoy visually enhanced games available on the PS3/360. You can't say one or the other is wrong. They both have different motives for playing a game. The PS3/360 are designed to fill the space of a component on a shelf in your living room. The Wii is designed to sit next to the TV and fit in a backpack (just like the Game Cube). There's nothing wrong with both kinds of players.
OrganicShadow @ Jun 12th 2007 12:54PM
This is exactly why we gamers can say "nay" to developers, even without "being in the business". We don't have to be making games to know that HDTV AND BROADBAND INTERNET ARE NOT REQUIRED TO ENJOY PS3 OR 360.
When will they learn? As dalejrfanfreak said, he owns a PS3 but not an HDTV, so what does that make him? A non-consumer? A non-gamer? Just a guy that bought some stuff? The main people I see talking about how HDTV isn't necessary yet are not the Wii crowd, but the 360 crowd, which a lot of them that I know don't own HDTV's yet.
Just because something supports certain tech doesn't mean it's REQUIRED to get enjoyment out of it. Sony stated again and again that they want to build the PS3 to last as long as possible, which is why it support standard definition and high definition. It supports everything from RGB cables to HDMI and optical. And with those things coupled with a free online service they are trying to reach out to as many people as they can within the $600 price tag(which totally sucks in light of the points I just made).
My girlfriend doesn't have a deep knowledge of gaming at all. She had to get me to SHOW her how to dig up a fossil on her DS animal crossing. Yet she wants me to buy her Virtua Tennis for PS3 as soon as I can, just from the HD DEMO I DOWNLOADED OVER MY BROADBAND CONNECTION.
Suck it SE. Go make DS games and tell us you're doing it for the market share even though we know you're doing it for the money. Keep acting like you and other eastern developers aren't becoming more westernized. We know what you're up to, and you know that we KNOW that, but you just don't want to publicly let it be known.
It's like the guys on cops that have their left hand up, and keep reaching for the glove box with their right hand, even though the cop has his gun aimed telling him to stop reaching. Do they really think they're fooling us?
Lp47 @ Jun 12th 2007 1:17PM
I would want the best technology system you can get right now. I dont want to buy a system each 2 years. The PS3 will be supperior to the 360 in a year. Starting this year the PS3 will get more sales because of the awesome game lineup.
Popfrogs @ Jun 12th 2007 1:19PM
I guess Squeenix is having some trouble getting their heads around real hardware. In the past, they've always worked on toys. They have never even made a PC game, instead turning it over to third party companies. Now they're faced with the most PC-like hardware, and they say "oh noes! hard to code for!".
Give them some time. They'll learn eventually. I'm sure that FFXIII is killing them just like Kojima is struggling with MGS4. The PS3 is like a dark cavern filled with treasure but instead of a torch you get a matchbook.
pete @ Jun 12th 2007 1:35PM
ps3= future proof tech. seriously you buy this machine your set for a decade you just need to add a hdtv, which imo doesnt hamper games at all, sure they look a hell of a lot prettier but that doesnt mean you cant play the game on a sdtv. and last a good receiver, although most people i know use their tvs speakers, *shudders*
Matt B @ Jun 12th 2007 1:37PM
I like the PS3 the way it is.
It took me 2 years to get a PS3. THe first thing I knew I needed was an HDTV. my 2005 tax return more than covered one. Now, all I had to do was wait til the PS3 dropped. I couldn't afford one at launch. So I waited for my 2006 tax return in March of this year and bought my gorgeous PS3. Money well spent IMO.
Chris Putnam @ Jun 12th 2007 1:42PM
HDTV support? That was necessary. HDTV's time has come, and if this generation of consoles didn't support it they'd have been outdated from the day they launched.
Now, stuff like BluRay and media center capabilities are a different matter. If they could have dropped that stuff and knocked $2-300 off the price tag, everyone would be a lot further ahead.
For those knocking the Wii, that's fine. Just remember that success is measured in sales, not fanboy opinion.
shase @ Jun 12th 2007 1:45PM
if handheld is future of gaming then i will pass. I see handhelds as a quick time killer while on the plane, on the bus, on the go - but imo it should NEVER replace home consoles.... unless parents want to see childrens with eye problems much more early. Staring at the small screen is tiring, especially if playing a time consuming game (which SE makes). I guess japanese people are "on the go" more than elsewhere or dont care about their eyes... If we have handheld future then i will pass... because i know i will never be able to play great games like the ones coming out for PS3/360 but instead have to settle for the stuff on ds/psp.
OrganicShadow @ Jun 12th 2007 2:01PM
Perhaps we should just excommunicate the Wii from the PS3/360/etc. crowd altogether? It's clearly in a "market" of it's own, and regardless of how many units sell and how many games come out for it, the hardcore gamers will STILL be wanting better graphics, physics, lighting, sound, voice acting, etc.
Nintendo will make profit from now until the next system they launch, so even if they aren't selling as many units or games as 360 or PS3 doesn't mean they "lost" the console war, or are doing "bad". It's really kind of abstract now, because if the Wii deteriorates the 360 and PS3 market, then the industry itself is being hurt, so I think it's best to just consider the Wii a different beast altogether, and not lump it in with the other guys anymore.
Going back to what I was saying earlier though, I think the DS and Wii will be eastern developers "fail safe" for these very reasons. They KNOW they can make "good" games for VERY little amounts of money, and MUCH quicker than other platforms, and with the install bases they will rake in cash.
With this cash they have raked in, I think they should be taking MOST of it, and putting it towards pushing into the next-gen market and using the rest to reinvest into the Wii market. That way there is balance........maybe.
RPG @ Jun 12th 2007 2:01PM
@Square-Enix
STFU AND MAKE ME MORE GAMES!!
...
AND A SAMMICH!!!
Flanando @ Jun 12th 2007 2:05PM
shh.
......get back to making FFXIII.
Doc @ Jun 12th 2007 2:06PM
sounds like a cop-out to me...over engineered what a joke, seems that they don't want to invest in ps3 or 360 since the base of installed users is small in japan i wouldn't be suprised if they just went to the wii, no HD no real online, and they could do it in maybe half the time. Square is getting on my nerves and showing their age time for me to move on to a company that can do the whole HD-online thing and not cry about it! they have this stance because they look at the sales figures in japan and well it's not rocket science to see that ds and wii are kicking ass over there and to them that is where the money is.
Josh @ Jun 12th 2007 2:29PM
Sounds like another lazy developer to me. Gamers crave better graphics, better physics, better AI, etc. and this can't be done on last-gen hardware. PS3 and Xbox 360 are advancing to the future of gaming while others...not mentioning any names...are stuck in the last generation. Square, keep up with technology or be left behind.
Xiru @ Jun 12th 2007 2:45PM
I have a nice example of how fast HDTV is catching on and how technology is moving quick even among casual gamers. I have a friend who swears the PS3/360 are "too powerful" and the graphics aren't necessary. Of course he owned a regular tube based crt television until his step mom got his dad a 50' plasma hdtv for this fathers day. He had stated over and over that no one is going to go out and spend $700+ on a TV and yet his own family just bought a $2500 tv as a present for his father. A nice present at that. The point here is that even if you think that the gamecube/wii/ps2/xbox look great and there is no need to upgrade yet, the technology is moving so fast that it is almost out of your control. He complains that his dvds and tv look grainy now and that his parents are upgrading to HD channels and might be getting a blu ray player. The fact is, technology is always advancing. Its moving even faster today than it was 10 years ago. The PS3 and 360 are equipped for the future and give us a nice taste of whats to come. Square Enix is just trying to defend their position. They want to support their biggest japanese game on the biggest selling japanese system, the DS. That is fine, as long as they give me FF13 on my PS3 and maybe Kingdom Hearts 3 also. In 3-4 years, square will be all over the PS3 and maybe the 360 also. I totally understand why square is releasing DQ9 on DS. Its a game that doesn't require anything more than decent 2d/3d. Its not meant to immerse you in the world and give you a movie like experience.
Arawn @ Jun 12th 2007 2:46PM
I mostly concur with MR. Wada
Also check this out:
At Namco Bandai, Mr. Unozawa said PlayStation 3 was so complex, with its faster speeds and more advanced graphics, that it might take 100 programmers a year to create a single game, at a cost of about $10 million. Creating a game for Wii costs only a third as much and requires only a third as many writers, he said.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/08/technology/08nintendo.html?pagewanted=2&ei=5090&en=845f7af53aba4959&ex=1338955200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
mccomber @ Jun 12th 2007 2:49PM
I agree that what gamers want is the best graphics, incredible sound and an enveloping storyline... but what the markets seems to want is what the Wii and DS offers. The PSP dances around what the DS can do, and probably could show up the Wii in a lot of areas technically. The ps3 and 360 are obviously out of the comparison altogether. But what's selling to the average person right now?
The problem this presents for developers is that when they want to make a new game, they have to step back and look at the scale of what they are trying to deliver. Right now, with the costs and effort involved in making a 360 game, and especially a ps3 game, that takes advantage of the system's strengths is a lot higher than creating another title on the Wii or DS. The problem is, the returns to the company, financially, is a lot stronger with the simpler titles. They can throw a lot of money at something, make it great, and make some money, or they can throw some money at it, make it average, and likely make just as much money because it's what the "market" wants. There will always be companies with individuals that see beyond just the money, and those are the ones that will deliver what we, the gamers, want.
The other side of this; the market is constantly changing, and quickly. Soon enough HD sets will be the majority of those purchased, and then the majority in homes quite quickly. Broadband will move into the position currently held by dialup in the vast majority of homes, and with the public WiFi projects most everyone in larger areas will (hopefully) have home internet access of some sort. It's a changing landscape, and building your games (or system) around what is hot right now will leave you behind. That's how it's always been with technology, and I doubt we've hit some sort of point in time where that will change soon.
Stuff like this is sort of like what we've come to see with movies. You can spend a lot of money on an epic and/or original picture, but you also risk it tanking and taking a ton of that money to the bottom with it. Or, you can make crap that appeals to the mass-market, market the hell out of it the two weeks around when it launches, and basically get a guarantee that you'll make your money back and likely a bit extra.
Killer @ Jun 12th 2007 2:56PM
@Justin
No they won't. It's the price. People will pay for a cheaper console with awesome games more then an expensive console that has less but still awesome games.
Sony has to get their ass in gear if they want the ps3 to become what the ps2 is. They need to figure out how to lower the price and start out producing the 360 in gaming (numbers). To say the ps3 will start selling when more titles come out, well wouldn't that work with the 360? With Mass Effect, Too Human, and many others. I'm just saying Sony has some major catching up to do.
Nightfire @ Jun 12th 2007 3:26PM
Sounds like Square is having problems with the PS3 and 360 and are useing Nintendo's two systems to fall back on for money. Even though they (and everybody too) know that Nintendo's systems are dirt cheap when it comes to making games for a quick buck because of the lack of effort needed to make a game for those systems.
Why do you think Nintendo gets so much games for it's systems? Even though for the Wii right now it's just Gamecube game ports also mini-games and for the DS quite a lot of it is just Shovelware from companeys like Disney also looking to make a fast buck and some of the time a gimmick game I herd on 1 UP Yours there's one coming soon for the DS in Japan and may come out here depending how well the Japanese sales go.
Square can keep on saying what they are saying but eveybody knows that they are just looking for cash like any other company. They are just wording it diffrent.
God I can't wait for when developers can stop bitching about how hard it is to make games for the PS3. I would ask them if I had the chance "If you are bitching about how hard it is to make a game for a new system why are you even making games in the first place?". I relly think the developers should know that systems get updated with new tech to keep them up to date and also add new features on them as well. It's the same for eveybody who uses computers things get upgraded. This feels like what happoned with the PS2 (or was it the PSX) when developers companed about how hard it was to work with the system and look where the system went when people learned their way around the system.
Thomas @ Jun 12th 2007 3:34PM
The entertainment market is going HD, therefore the gaming market has to be ready for that change. I'll tell you what's over engineered... that stupid license system in FFXII
Chris Putnam @ Jun 12th 2007 4:59PM
To everybody saying this developer is "lazy" or "can't keep up with the hardware"... do you actually know who Square-Enix is?
Square? The company that's been a world leader in graphics technology for the last 10 years? The company that's making FFXIII, probably the most visually impressive game on any console right now?
Gads, people get stupid when they get defensive.
Breeze @ Jun 12th 2007 8:01PM
Let's analyze this: An old man is saying things are too complex, too fast, too over-engineered. Something tells me if this guy was running the show, we would still be using ColecoVisions and IntelliVisions.
Stormkeep @ Jun 12th 2007 8:27PM
Chris...this is the SE that enjoys rolling out one port after another.
Yeah, they have made (and are working on) some amazing looking games, but they are also clearly very interested in putting out quick, easy, low effort titles at a much faster rate. There's some grounds to say they are getting lazy and also just looking to make quick bucks given these facts.
SE of today is not the same SE of yesteryear.
UltimateNinja9 @ Jun 13th 2007 1:31AM
SquareEnix needs to make a PS3 exclusive Ehrgeiz 2.
dalejrfanfreak @ Jun 13th 2007 2:02AM
SE isn't all that bad, but basically they make the same style games over and over again. All rpg's for the most part. They don't even have to worry about making other genre games ya know? How do you think EA must feel when they have to create all new engines for their games. I mean, Final Fantasy is extremely complex but for the most part the gameplay has maintained it's functionality for many years and only small tweaks have been done. Graphics wise they are a powerhouse company, but they haven't changed much gameplay or even offered online play with regular games (ffXI isn't a regular Final Fantasy).
Everyone's gotta complain bout somethin I guess.
w0rddriven @ Jun 13th 2007 4:52PM
Last-gen and next-gen in terms of developmental requirements are an order of a magnitude greater. We're talking 2-5x if not more. This means spending more money up front for a VERY RISKY pay off in the end. Gamers are probably the most picky types of people on the planet, so it's not like we're exactly helping matters.
Personally, I'd rather see them devote current-gen artists and designers but use more next-gen engine/AI/physics considering the same developers don't generally have to spend twice as much work to produce a high-res texture. The problem with this is people will whine about the PS2 look and no one would buy it, which would keep the developer at their current revenue. All it would take is ANY company producing one really good game to give them the revenue necessary to make a really kick-ass next-gen title. The problem is, we're asking them to do so without expanding their infrastructure and to be honest I have no doubt that's why many games are taking so long to complete.
Lastly the PS3 even with the Edge toolkit doesn't quite have something as open as XNA, so none of us without a devkit really know how difficult it is to create games. We assume the Wii is easier because of it's hardware limitation but that's most likely not true either. Because no one expects next-gen graphics with the Wii, it allows developers to focus more on the engine and less on the assets (which some say are more in cost). The nature of the PS3 and 360 demand next-gen or no one will buy those games and when you think about the install base, it makes more sense to go with the leader at this point. There's A LOT of money to lose out of the gate but I think once SE gets a title like FFXIII under their belt, they'll START changing their tune.
They're still pretty much on the money for any start-up dev shops out there. You don't have an XNA to guage how difficult it'd be to create just a simple game, so forking out that much money to "figure it out" isn't exactly smart business sense. Now if Sony were to release an XNA alternative in addition to pumping out more games, start-ups would actually be able to choose a platform without spending too much money up front figuring it all out. They could prototype their game in the framework and if it pans out, buy a devkit and produce it officially provided it doesn't take an entire rewrite to use the devkit versus the "free alternative".
shase @ Jun 13th 2007 5:58PM
I agree to the fact that if the next gen and next next gen etc... keep upping everything without caring about development time we will see less and less games developed due to the costs and time. I think if Sony keeps up with the cell structure and make some small modifications the developers will have a much easier time to develop next gen since they basically bring over most of their knowledge of the cell and ps3 with them. However, if Sony decides to go ambitious and bring a new structure that people haven't seen/worked with then no doubt we will see more costs and time.
I also agree that there should be a time that the gaming system reaches its highest point and not have any new ones coming out for many many years but if one competitor start making a nextgen system, the others have to respond which ruins it for the rest of us.
Topher07 @ Jun 15th 2007 11:11AM
Surprising that Square Enix is saying this, considering that one of the first things they did on the PS3 platform was re-create the FF VII openning by showing it in real time rendering. I am sure they also appreciate the "over-engineered" PS3 for FF13. If you don't want to develop for the system, then don't, but don't cry out about Sony or even Microsoft offering you amazing specs that will take your game beyond your imagination. If you want to develop on a system with lousy graphics and not enough performance for decent physics and such, then develop for Wii. Square Enix isn't a PC game developer anyways, so they never had to develop for a real system that offers high performance anyways. Any PC game they have released was a cheap port from a game console.
Antonio @ Jun 24th 2007 12:57PM
Water down the PS3?!?! Fuck no!! Buy an Xbox, lol. Sony didn't build to PS3 to please the world, just the worlds loyal gamers who are ever ready for the most awesome system ever. The Xbox 360 IS the watered down, MTV-version of the PS3; selling out the hopes and dreams of us veteran, hardcore gamers to appease the stupid massess and make more $$$. Fuck M$. Love Sony.