Future PS3 firmware updates could improve upscaling 30% to 40% [Update]
If you're already impressed by the PS3's upscaling of older PlayStation games and DVD movies, wait until you see what Sony engineers have in store for future updates. SCE chief technology officer Kawanishi and AV manager Kanehide were talking about the future of the PS3's firmware updates when a very interesting claim was made. "We have gotten feedback from critics regarding several failure patters for upconverting, but we are getting closer to the goal. I think we can improve another 30 to 40%," said Kawanishi. He is talking about the upscaling performance, as in, 30 - 40% better than what was given during firmware 1.80. The dynamic duo also believe they can give this performance boost without additional fan noise, further believing in a future, fanless PS3 console. Very cool indeed.[Update: We had previously, failed to source Next-Gen Biz for the original story. The links have slightly changes, but all sourcing is cited correctly. Apologies all around.]
[Via CVG]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
RPG @ Jun 20th 2007 11:21AM
30-40% better?! SOLD!!
Bored @ Jun 20th 2007 11:42AM
But the upscaling already is good!
Nice of them, how perfectionist :)
Now do the features people want the most!
Travis @ Jun 20th 2007 11:44AM
I'm not sure how you quantify upscaling performance, so it seems to me they could do just about anything and find a way to argue that it is 30% to 40% better. While they're pulling numbers out of their butt, why not just go for 4892908332% better?
Matt B @ Jun 20th 2007 11:54AM
Travis,
They know what could be improved. They built the damn thing. I know where you pulled your post from.
ToyAnvil @ Jun 20th 2007 11:56AM
How about upscaling PS3 720p games to 1080i first?
OrganicShadow @ Jun 20th 2007 12:03PM
Ehh, we aren't engineers, so we don't know what those percentages mean, or what "performance" is with upscaling, so I won't pass any judgement on them "pulling numbers out of their butts".
For all we know it's a tiny miniscule improvement, and the difference between pre-1.80 and the 1.80 update was 270% improvement!
J_Swayze @ Jun 20th 2007 12:04PM
"How about upscaling PS3 720p games to 1080i first?"
Downgrading?
MisterTwoTurbo @ Jun 20th 2007 12:19PM
J_Swayze. He's referring to those who has 1080i TVs in which the PS3 downscales them to 480p. They are crying for the update that would fix that. Nobody should have to play a PS3 in 480p even if they have a older HDTV. I'm more anxious for the PS3 720p games to upscale to 1080p.
ToyAnvil @ Jun 20th 2007 12:26PM
Yes to #9 that is exactly what I am referring to. My TV may be old but it still is as good as anything else out there in my opinion -- Pioneer Elite 710HD. Besides the amount of money that thing cost me in 2000 there is no way I am gonna get rid of it just yet.
Stef Geiger @ Jun 20th 2007 12:28PM
Yeah, 720p to 1080i scaling for games REALLY needs to happen, but at this point I think it's pretty clear that that's actually up to the game developers, and on an individual basis. On that note, R6: Vegas does 1080i, though IGN says it looks like 720p. Still leaps and bounds over 480p...
Phil McCrotch @ Jun 20th 2007 12:41PM
Man they keep improving the ps3 so regularly. I admit I'm a PSFanboy, but for real. The PS3 keeps impressing me more and more.
When will they come out w/ games that impress just as much as the the updates to the firmware? Whats so impressive about adding (bleep) that should have been there in the first place. Not too long ago some PS3 (more bleep) were saying the 360 was a POS when it was updating it's machine the same way the PS3 is doing.
(My, we love to bleep) firmware upgrades get some damn games out already. Mines is on the way back for lack of games.
VerticalEvent @ Jun 20th 2007 1:14PM
If you're having an issue with having a TV that does 1080i, but plays in 480p, adjust your display setting for your PS3 to 720p.
If you have your resolution set higher then what the game is designed for, it bumps it down to 480p, for some reason.
ShadowHawk01 @ Jun 20th 2007 1:17PM
I think it is sad when the machine gets more Firmware updates than it does games.
mccomber @ Jun 20th 2007 1:18PM
"Games are the most important factor, and games are the area where the Playstation 3 is the weakest."
And interestingly enough, games are one of the things that by the end of the year we'll be swimming in. Yes, it sucks not to have them now... but yeah, they are coming. By 2008 we'll just have to look forward to another seemingly unavoidable summer drought in titles after the number of great games coming our way.
How long did it take the 360 to get it's current "great" library (aka Gears and a couple other nichier titles)? Why is it that much like us ps3 owners, the majority of what they talk about when they speak of the great games for their system are future releases? If you want a system with a great library already in place, buy a ps2; or just play those games on your ps3. With improved upscaling.
Jimmith @ Jun 20th 2007 1:19PM
Really? All you guys have tv's that do 1080i but not 720p? I don't think i've ever encountered such a tv. Must be an American thing.
ShadowHawk01 @ Jun 20th 2007 1:19PM
VerticalEvent
You do not understand the problem. These are people (like myself) who got HDTV's before 720p. Those TV's do 480i, 480p, 1080i. NOT 720p.
Therefore... if the game does not support 1080i it plays in 480p.
Stef Geiger @ Jun 20th 2007 1:32PM
Actually, the PS3 DOES have a hardware scaler, but apparently close to launch, Sony "changed the way developers have to access it", which kind of tells me that the games we're seeing that max out at 720p were too far along in development to make scaling a reality. That being said, I imagine that we'll be seeing more and more 1080i/p games in the coming months. Lair is 1080p, and R6: Vegas is 1080i, hell, even Pirates was 1080p, so there's hope...
Zta @ Jun 20th 2007 1:41PM
On the topic of PS3 fan noise: http://asklandd.dk/ps3/ps3-fan-noise.html
Travis @ Jun 20th 2007 1:52PM
Matt B,
I think you missed the point of my post. Visual quality is subjective and cannot be assigned meaningful numbers (quantifying). To say that the visual quality will be 30% - 40% better doesn't make sense unless there is a way for us to measure the difference. So there is no way to hold them to that statement, it's already meaningless.
I have a PS3 (which is why I read the news on this website), but just because I like my PS3 doesn't mean I'm going to shut off my brain when I read irrational logic.
But good luck with your 30% - 40% better upscaling ability. Let me know how that works out for you.
Matt B @ Jun 20th 2007 1:59PM
Sorry Travis, I was a little grumpy this morning. My apologies.
Nuge32 @ Jun 20th 2007 2:17PM
Man they keep improving the ps3 so regularly. I admit I'm a PSFanboy, but for real. The PS3 keeps impressing me more and more.
Nuge32 @ Jun 20th 2007 2:18PM
The people working on PS3 firmware updates are not going to have the same skillset as a damn videogame developer. Hardware v. Software. Yeah ok so the collection of games is low. Until next week when they start coming out at a regular pace. God people relax. The PS2 didn't become the juggernaught it is in half a year did it.
Phillyvu @ Jun 20th 2007 2:28PM
You guys need to remember the PS2 and even Xbox release did not have games (well good games) for almost a year later (Ok, maybe 6-7 months).
Yes, it sucks that the only game I'm playing is a beta that's not even out yet. But like the PS2, I waited until all the AAA titles started coming out and it was worht it.
Let everyone be fanboys and complain that the PS3 doesn't have game. We'll get them, it's coming. Just like the PS2 and Xbox.
BrokenFern @ Jun 20th 2007 2:56PM
@ #13 BLACK,
Try Again Buddy! I have a PS3 & 360 and the 360 does not do 1080P. With no HDMI output, it is not possible... Maybe you're refering to the XBOX 360 Elite which has HDMI, but even so, I don't think so.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong because I would love to set it up as 1080P for my 1080P TV... once it gets back from microsoft that is.
ToyAnvil @ Jun 20th 2007 3:03PM
#27
From what I understand and it is even at the end of Major Nelson's latest podcast. The non elite 360's can do 1080p over both component and vga for games. It can only do upconversion of DVDs to 1080p over vga due to restrictions of the DVD licensing agreement of not allowing upconversion over analog
WebMaster @ Jun 20th 2007 3:12PM
@ Brokenfern
Actually, you should try again, as I don't believe you own a 360. I also own a PS3, Elite 360, and just purchased a Pro 360 for one of my kids. The 360 does output in 1080p w/o the HDMI port.
Popfrogs @ Jun 20th 2007 3:30PM
@Webmaster: It may do 1080p over component with a recent firmware update but that hasn't always been the case. And it definitely won't do 1080p HD/DVD movies over component because of DRM restrictions. The PS3 won't either, both require HDMI and the digitally signed signal chain it brings with it.
@Travis: Visual quality can be quantified, and often is. You're showing your ignorance of how the A/V world works by saying it's completely subjective. There are a number of deinterlacing/deblocking/whatever tests that hardcore AV companies and enthusiasts run in order to determine quality. Head over to AVSForums and get your education.
Stellarpimp @ Jun 20th 2007 3:36PM
@29 Xbox didn't start out with 1080p over component cables. That nifty upgrade was done through a firmware/patch. Also take note to his entire post...he is waiting on it to come back from Microsoft. Which further tells me he hasn't played his system in awhile. OR he doesn't own a 1080p TV and wouldn't had known unless he had one (like a friend of mine that has a 720p TV).
@21/Zta Your PS3 has a variable speed fan. From the picture of your post the PS3 is near the window/door. Not one of the cooler places to place your system. Simply put...move it to the shade and throw on some air conditioning.
Breeze @ Jun 20th 2007 3:37PM
Travis,
That's because they're video engineers and you still live in a basement.
BrokenFern @ Jun 20th 2007 6:42PM
@31 PIMP,
You my friend are actually correct on both counts. I just purchased the Sammy 5687X 56" 1080P a little while ago and my 360 comes back in next week (I hope).
Lp47 @ Jun 20th 2007 7:08PM
WOW features apon features pretty soon there going to blow microsft out of the water.
Consolcwby @ Jun 20th 2007 8:04PM
@ShadowHawk01:
You are correct! I have a newer 1080i set (cost me a song and a dance - almost free!) that DOES support 720p, so, I get the HD treatment from my games! =D
I love being in the right place at the right time, heh!
glyn @ Jun 21st 2007 6:59AM
Please, please, please - 3d for linux, it does not have to be full rsx access (i can see the piracy issues) but 3d access through the framebuffer would be fine. Just update the hypervisers framebuffer, and a quick DirectFB driver and we are away - full 3d for linux - no rsx hooks for scurvy pirates. again, please, please, please - do you want me to beg? ('cos you know i will!!)
matjet @ Jun 21st 2007 8:28AM
i think they mean that not all the back compatible titles are truly upscaled. some games have there graphics bumped up in resolution while those less compatible simply get smoothed over. this explains why some people reported a massive difference and others found it to little better at all. they are going the increase the number of truly upscaled games by 30-40%
ADR @ Jun 21st 2007 9:59AM
Huh, millions of people with 1080i sets that can't display 720p that have PS3s, not really.
Only the first generation of 1080i rear projection sets sold in 2000-2001 were affected. A few CRT sets had the problem but most still accepted a 720p signal but displayed it as 1080i. Since 1080i is actually a lower complete resolution than 720p they didn't want to label the tvs as displaying 720p.
If you have a 1080i CRT set try the 720p setting on your PS3 and see if the TV displays it. My 30" Toshiba CRT that does not list 720p as a mode will accept th esignal and it definately is more than 480p and confirmed by the OSD.
The Toshiba, Phillips, Samsung, and Sony CRT sets almost all accepted 720p input. Only a few of the really chep off brand HDCRT sets didn't.
Topher07 @ Jun 21st 2007 10:15AM
Actually, I wasn't impressed with the recent upscaling update. I was playing FF12 religiously since getting my PS3, and was happy with the quality of the PS2 game, then I got the update and it squashed and fuzzed the game. It wasn't until I turned off the blur and changed the upscaling settings that it got decent, but still didn't look sharp and crisp as before. It seems the upscaling only really applies to 1080p output which is understandable, but 720p output was ignored and it definitely worsend by the last update. Hopefully, unless the next update dramatically improves upscaling even for 720p mode, then at least offer the option of turning it off completely and going back to the way things were before the first upscaling update.
John @ Jun 22nd 2007 10:38PM
I too would welcome an update to the upscaling, which I assumed was in the works, anyway.
That said, I found a bunch of variance regarding watching upscaled ps2 games.
Basically, I had to access a different mode on my tv. If I left the tv in the mode I had it for ps3, upscaling on ps2 games would tend to look blurry.
A small adjustment to sharpness (1-2 steps) fixed this problem, and there were no visible artifacts typical of adjusting sharpness.
The thing is, if I switched to a ps3 game, I would have to lower the sharpness again, as it looked better at the default sharpness setting.
This is all fine-- I personally don't mind messing around with my tv to get the better picture when I play a ps2 game.
But most people would like to put in the disc and simply see a difference... blurriness is not enough.
So when they talk about 30-40%, they're talking about these things, they're talking about making ps2 output similar to native ps3 output.
It's a learning process.
Just like with the ps2, which is an incredible machine-- it runs at only 297 MGHZ and competes with the Xbox, at over TWICE it's speed... but that's only when people know how to program it.
So we'll see these things, and of course, they're coming later, and developers and hardware people and Sony are paying attention.
These things come later, as the need arises. Various resources have to be delegated to work on these things.
If the public doesn't want it, there's no reason to waste resources that could be used in other ways.
So they're listening, and they're working.
Is this post cheesy?
Michael @ Jun 25th 2007 7:27PM
Please the people who have 720p capable HDTVs don't even comment on the scaling capabilities and treat us like morons because our HDTV sets only do 1080i and 480p. Its not our fault that we have to play so many ps3 games in 480p it is SONYS FAULT!! Don't tell me I need a newer tv set for the love of god. 1080i on my tv set looks stunning and the ps3 should conform every game to it. FIX THE 720p TO 1080i SCALING ISSUE NOWWWWWW!!!!!
UltimateNinja9 @ Jun 28th 2007 2:04AM
@41
Stop complaining about how your tv can do 1080i but not 720p. That is like someone complaining about how their PS2 won't play PS3 games. The fact is this problem only affects the 5 people who bought an off-brand hdtv back in 2001. You can't expect a 6 year old tv to be able to display what the PS3 throws at it. Sony is smart to not even waste their time addressing this. If you don't like how the PS3 looks on your tv and can't afford a new one then take your PS3 back to the store and buy a Wii and 7 games. You'll love the Wii. It was made just for people with a low income and a crappy tv.