Rockstar failed to realize difficulties of making PS3 GTA
by Andrew Yoon 
{ Aug 3rd 2007 at 11:45AM }
Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter explains that the reason for GTA's untimely appearance is due to Rockstar's lack of experience with the PS3: "We think it is likely that the Rockstar team had difficulty in building an exceptionally complicated game for the PS3, and failed to recognize how far away from completion the game truly was until recently." It's true that Rockstar has more experience with the Xbox 360 hardware, thanks to their Table Tennis game. All footage of the game we've seen so far was running on Xbox tech, which hints at possible negligence when developing the PS3 version. Even if the Xbox 360 version was further along in development, it appears that Take-Two simply might not have had any choice but to delay both versions of the game: "We think it is also likely that Take-Two had a contractual commitment to Sony that it would not favor competitor Microsoft by launching the Xbox 360 version of GTA IV prior to launching the PS3 version, and believe that any delay of the PS3 version necessitated a delay of the Xbox 360 version."
This is Rockstar's first attempt at making a multi-platform "next gen" game. A game as large as GTA IV is undoubtedly a beast to program, and Rockstar may have failed to recognize the added work of developing for two platforms simultaneously. As N'Gai Croal from Newsweek points out, "It wouldn't surprise us if Rockstar and Take-Two had already all-but-delayed the PS3 version to triage the Xbox 360 version for this holiday, only to have their hands forced when, at yesterday's product review, it became clear to both sides that even the 360 version could not be completed this year to Rockstar's exacting standards."
Regardless of what the "real" reason for the delay is, we're glad to see that Rockstar has more time to work on both the 360 and PS3 versions of the game. We certainly want the game to be as polished as it can be.
Read - Michael Pachter, Wedbush Morgan Securities
Read - N'Gai Croal, Newsweek
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
x silence x @ Aug 3rd 2007 11:50AM
And everyone was in a rush to blame the 360...
pete @ Aug 3rd 2007 11:57AM
i dont think the 360 game is close to done, but neither is the ps3 version, its just crazy it took this long to figure out, 'hey it might not be ready' with all their countdowns and hype regarding trailers and all this other madness.
Brian Spence @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:14PM
I still think it's the 360's fault. Rockstar even stated that their problems were with the 360, not the PS3. What some securities firm states is based on speculation, not fact.
LS @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:04PM
one can only hope they dont delay it further again - if they're so inexperienced or incapable of developing for the PS3 then there's a chance their estimated need for another 6-8 months might prove too little.
One would have thought they would of had a dev unit of the PS3 long before it was officially released and therefore enough time to know how long they might need to create GTA4 before they began (but obviously not)
rawd @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:00PM
I noticed alot of 'if' and 'think' in this article.
otsego_undead @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:12PM
now, see we wouldnt have had such a problem if sony just ponied up for GTA IV to be a PS3 exclusive in the first place.. which is what the PS3 DESPARETLEY needs. Sony needs to heart Rockstar more.
marcandrer @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:14PM
this guy is just another 360 fanboy imo.. an "analyst".. anyone with an opinion declares themselves analyst these days. Anyone can make a fancy pants Company name and say they're an analyst and then say "WE THINK thats that", etc.. its crap imo
mccomber @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:17PM
"analyst Michael Pachter speculates that the reason"
Fixed.
OrganicShadow @ Aug 6th 2007 3:34PM
@6: That's true, they have stated 360 problems before, so I don't know weather or not PS3 problems are the real reason behind the delay or not. As the article suggests though, maybe it's actually both versions that are further off then they imagined.
If it's PS3 specifically though, I would have to chalk it up to being Rockstar's fault. They could have done more to get used to PS3 hardware earlier on, and they DID fail to send Sony their trailer, remember? So it seems to me like they(as in the GTA team at R* specifically) slacked on getting up to speed with PS3.
In other news the GRAW2 demo for PS3 looks great. :)
MYPS3KilledMy360 @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:21PM
there is problems on both systems but by admitting they need more time instead of throwing a crappy game out there is ok. GTAIV IS BEING DEVELOPED ON THE PS3 ALTHOUGH ITS BEING SHOWN ON THE PS3. They have a problems with the PS3 Arch. its nothing new its there first time i dont think thats a real problem its just a high learning curb.The behind the seen screening of GTAIV that was dubbed to be horrid most likely would be ran on the 360 why wtf why would you show it off on the 360 than run it on the PS3. They didnt say anything about the 360 version and its problems but if they did it would just end up proving what we have beening saying the whole time and MS wouldnt want that would they.(please dont make me type the PS3fanboy list of 360 problems if you dare ask what problem).
why not the LS2/LS7? @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:28PM
Pure speculation. There's not a single sentence of information here, just blather. It's absurd how overextended this story is, it all derives from an "analyst" simply stating he never saw the game on a PS3.
There's more technical reasons here than just the new hardware (be it PS3 or 360). They also did all their other GTA games on the Renderware engine, and they are using a whole new one this time.
mccomber @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:35PM
Another theory that sounds pretty credible given TakeTwo's financial dealings in the past: the game was never going to be ready for this year, and was only announced as such to keep the company afloat. Especially with the push of Manhunt 2, the company is hurting for money.
"[CEO Ben} Feder stressed that Take-Two's "financial condition" is sound. However, to keep it sound the company several weeks ago lined up $100 million in financing -- not from a bank or through traditional financing, but from Wells Fargo Foothill, an asset backed lender which views itself as "an alternative source of financing" that provides "innovative financing solutions." And not at a cheap rate. Must be nobody else was willing to take the risk, and as today's news suggests: For good reason."
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/greenberg/2007/08/take-two-the-mo.html
Stef Geiger @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:40PM
This is exactly what I predicted after the E3 showing - the game was getting delayed because it looked extremely unfinished for a game that needed to be done in a couple months.
Who here is actually surprised?
FrankBilboWinkerToups @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:47PM
Seriously what is there that this game is going to have that the others didn't? Rockstar could stand to give the franchise a rest.
Clayton @ Aug 3rd 2007 12:57PM
http://www.gta4.net/news/3918/analyst-ps3-caused-gta-iv-delay/
Here is another link that points to PS3 being the problem.
Tru-blue @ Aug 3rd 2007 1:05PM
i had a hard time understanding #8's comment. sorry.
Tru-blue @ Aug 3rd 2007 1:07PM
But what are you going to do? They delayed it to put more work into it. I'm fine with that. Go take the extra time to work on the development more rather than force an unfinished game out just in time for an announced release date.
WTangoFoxtrot @ Aug 3rd 2007 1:14PM
well while i couldnt care much about this delay given my 360 is gonna be churning like crazy this fall i hope rockstar in the light of any further problems with their PS3 version just screw it and atleast give ur 360 users the game at this new date next year. they can then concenerate all their efforts in getting a PS3 version out of the door while at the same time making profits off the 360 version.
my $.02
Torgo @ Aug 3rd 2007 1:31PM
I can't believe that people are listening to anything Pachter has to say lately. N'Gai has a completely different take on this:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/08/02/speculation-on-the-factors-behind-gta-iv-delay.aspx
Do we know who's right? No way. Only Rockstar and Take Two know the real reasoning behind this.
http://playstationnationpodcast.com
Brian Spence @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:28PM
@13 Dude, you posted a link to an article about the SAME ANALYST! Duh.
mccomber @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:01PM
Clayton, you do realize that "new" link just uses the same source, Pachter, right? Doesn't add a damn thing to the actual story.
never$$hort @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:09PM
The link that #17 Torgo posted:
http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/levelup/archive/2007/08/02/speculation-on-the-factors-behind-gta-iv-delay.aspx
is similar to Patchers statement but goes into much more details and sound a bit more accurate in my opinion... it isn't only the PS3 that is causing problems. Quit spreading lies people and at least tell the WHOLE story, sheeesh....
L @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:38PM
People Blame rock star Not the xbox 360 or PS3 ...they where the ones put the date on the game
Tho i still find it funny you all blame the XBOX 360 ver of the game ..so so funny
rfom @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:37PM
Whatever be the reason, this is the last thing Rockstar needed. GTA 4 is the game guaranteed to turn around their fortunes, and I really hope this deosnt get delayed to the extent that it drives this company into bankruptcy - scary, but possible. Though thanks to MS (didnt think I would say this) and their USD50m they should be safe till it releases
upz @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:47PM
Wow...I can't believe how quick we all are to turn on Pachter. This guy has always called it straight - he's right far more often than he's wrong, and he's historically favored Sony not because of bias or fanaticism, but because Sony's been the best at doing business. One perfectly logical speculative statement later, he's somehow sold out and joined the anti-PS3 conspiracy?
Keep an open mind and listen to what this guy has to say. After all, he still projects Sony to be on top when all is said and done this generation.
Mak @ Aug 3rd 2007 2:51PM
Hillarious, one "expert" says the PS3 is at fault, and all the XBots start throwing links that all point back to the original commnent.
In all likelyhood, the delay is down to the 360, it's lack of HDD, and limitations of DVD9.
It surely can't be a concidence that this following news story broke the same day?
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148
Logo program for the 360 HDD required. Who wants to bet this is connected...
The other telling point, is Rockstars next games are all PS3 exclusives, no 360 support. Does this sound like a company having issues with PS3, and not 360...
never$$hort @ Aug 3rd 2007 3:03PM
Your right #25 Mak, this is just one more way M$ continues to rape thier customers:
Source: Future Xbox 360 games to require hard drive:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148
-Thanks but no thanks, They used up the whole DVD9 with God of War... what makes you think they don't need more space??? MS made a bad gamble because they did not compensate for the smallish DVD9 with a LARGER hard drive... but since their HDD is so small and the 120GB is a $180 rip off... I cannot condone MS ripping off their customers.... they will force all of you to pay exorbant amounts for HDD space, when you get your 360 out of the box, you only have 13GB free!!! So after a few downloads and god forbid if you download movies.... there ain't much space left for streaming game data to the HDD in uncompressed format.... so eventually all you guys will have to fork out $179.99 for 120 GB hdd... when you can buy a brand new 2.5" SATA hdd 120 from newegg.com for $79.99. Microsoft marks up their drive MORE than $100 because they buy them in bulk!!! They don't pay consumer rates... they pay much cheaper business rate prices. Microsoft fans you are getting fu*ked so bad it should be a crime. Lets do the math... Microsoft charges you $1.50 per GB when Newegg.com charges you $0.67 per GB. So microsoft charges you loyal customers 2.24 times the decent customer rate while smiling in your faces... how you hold your loyalties to them I will never know.
Andir3.0 @ Aug 3rd 2007 3:33PM
Why would they delay the game on the 360 if it was supposed to come out on the 360 first (this Christmas) and it's the PS3s fault? The logic floors me.
Naaiif @ Aug 3rd 2007 9:18PM
Yeh if this was the ps3's fault then they would have just delayed the ps3 version and released the 360 version this fall, and Take Two need the money right now.
So if they delayed both versions then theres obviously a problem with the 360 version, or even both of the versions. Either way the 360 is involved.
I'm trying not to be bias but i'm inclined to believe it is the 360's fault, what with this random news coming out about future games needing a HDD, right before the delay of GTA IV.
Coincidence? I'm not sure.
John @ Aug 3rd 2007 10:37PM
Well I hope they read up; Insomniac was talking about discovering that with the PS3, parallelism is the main strategy for drawing out the power of the unit-- but traditionally game developers haven't had to deal with parallelism. Insomniac was a developer who early learned to do the sort of miniature parallel that was possible on ps2, so they were kind of ready, but I think Rockstar, from having problems of streaming content from highly compressed data, to all sorts of new bottlenecks they've never encountered before, to really having to do the ps3 version separately, I mean, a different team (maybe they already are) because there is little code that you can successfully port from xbox360-- that's a fairly straightforward triple-core unit with established programming tools. The ps3 is requiring a lot of concerted things working at once, in parallel. Sure, the machine can do it, but can you program it? Another interesting thing on Insomniac's board is shortcuts that use ONLY the RSX processor, and things that use ONLY a cel... there are so many diverse ways to do things, they have already found fixes for things that in Resistance wasted too much time... (not that players saw evidence of it)... but GTA is first-time for ps3, and they've only done one other game on Xbox.
I think the only way for Rockstar to fix this is to take as much time as they need, like Polyphony did with GT4.
Of course, we can all stand to be nervous, because while their programmers pulled some wonderful stunts on ps2, they have done more work on traditional (i.e. PC and Xbox) platforms, so can they learn the ps3 quick enough? I hope they're drawing on all the resources they can.
Andir3.0 @ Aug 4th 2007 12:12PM
That or maybe the PS3 version looked better than the 360 version and Microsoft threatened to pull the $50 million of funding if they don't "correct" the situation and beef up the 360 version :p