PS3 can handle complex AI, says Karraker
by Nick Doerr 
{ Aug 15th 2007 at 8:45AM }
We don't think the PS3 would have any trouble handling complicated AI processing or whatever technical jargon you want to toss in there. This is sort of interesting, since graphics were the last thing to get bashed on the PS3, but that topic seems to have silenced itself. Now we're moving on to AI? Eventually devs are just going to have to accept the possibility that, while architecturally different, the PS3 and 360 should be able to handle almost everything identically.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Peter J @ Aug 15th 2007 9:13AM
I doubt the AI in Splinter Cell will be as complex as the one thats going to be in MGS4.. so, UbiPort can eat crow.
James @ Aug 15th 2007 9:34AM
Seriously - apparently the AI in the last splinter cell was horrid, so this sounds like a coverup to me. Intelligent AI isn't limited by processing power as much as it's limited by the designs of the AI algorithms...that's a developer problem. If anything, the multi-spu design of the cell is good for AI because you can dedicate one or two units to doing just AI calculations.
Sounds like FUD to me.
Travis @ Aug 15th 2007 9:34AM
Wait, they'll handle everything identically? Why did I pay an extra $200 for a ps3 then?
chaod @ Aug 15th 2007 9:41AM
handle things identically? gimme a break. ai processing is where the ps3 wipes the floor. in fact number crunching in general is where the ps3 wipes the floor.
whoever wrote this article needs a slap.
L @ Aug 15th 2007 9:49AM
"number crunching in general is where the ps3 wipes the floor"
lmao yey go Ps3 and Folding@Home =P
iNime @ Aug 15th 2007 1:53PM
For real, CELL pwns all in data crunching. Corny ass developers and their laziness, they have NO excuse.
ndoerr @ Aug 15th 2007 9:55AM
@ chaod -- I need a slap, really? My point in saying the two should perform identically was in reaction to the ports the PS3 received that perform inadequately in comparison to the 360 versions. It's obviously possible, so there's no reason the two versions should be any different at all.
...Any advantage one console has over the other wasn't the point. We all know which one is best =P
ForceUnleashed @ Aug 15th 2007 9:57AM
"Eventually devs are just going to have to accept the possibility that, while architecturally different, the PS3 and 360 should be able to handle almost everything identically.
Thus Nick declareth...thus shall it be! I'm the last person to talk about this subject but I hope that last bit was sarcasim. No offense but neither you nor any sony fanboy can just automically tell everyone that the ps3 can handle everything just cuz its the most powerful system out there.
I trust the maker of a game more than the competition itself to know what is going on.
Lol @ Folding at Home...notice how we never hear about it anymore!? Guess sony finally realized that its not a selling point....
DownwardMonkey @ Aug 15th 2007 10:15AM
My field is AI, and that is utter FUD.
anonim1979 @ Aug 15th 2007 10:18AM
Of course it CAN. but PS3 is SLOW in this regard.
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/7
"At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs."
Also coparation of PS3 and X360 whole architecture.
http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1
ForceUnleashed @ Aug 15th 2007 10:22AM
Yeah showstopper you must have...cuz for weeks all joystiq and the sony fanboys could blab on about was just how awesome folding at home is and how its really unique and how the ps3 "PWNS" the 360 because of it!
I buy videogame consoles to play vidoegames...and maybe once in a while do some other stuff. I wouldn't use Folding at Home even if it were on the 360. Plus just because sony is doing it doesn't mean everyone has to do it. Not to mention MS doesn't have to copy sony to be sucessful in terms of videogames.
PS Why do you have that "The showstopper" tagline at the bottom of each post? I find it funny. Are you trying to show that you're some kinda badass thru the internet?
Sequinforaneye @ Aug 15th 2007 10:29AM
No you can't, yes i can
No you can't, yes I can
the console war = 7 year olds arguing
John Giotta @ Aug 15th 2007 10:52AM
Well, I think the negativity comes from the fact that development is harder (I assume) so the development houses bitch because they have to try a little harder. Where as Microsoft has always been a software house first, they have a rich background in programming tools, all ready and waiting.
gordyNYC @ Aug 15th 2007 10:48AM
They both do everything identically except for the ability to play in a sauna at 102 degrees for 64 hours straight, PS3 excels at that. I know I do that all the time.
ForceUnleashed @ Aug 15th 2007 10:56AM
Different stroks...Different folks.
Personally besides LittleBigPlanet, FFXIII, and maybe MGS4 I see no reason to buy a ps3. Uncharted looks aight but I'll watch and see.
My Wii60 combo is looking pretty sweet right now for Fall and Holiday 2007. Metroid and Bioshock coming up. Eternal Sonata, Smash Bros Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, Assassins Creed, Eternal Sonata, and more.
I just hope I have enough time for other things.
As for my 360 I've got Gears of War and DOA4. However I haven't had a lot of time to play on it recently and since I'm back in school my parents are kidna threatening to take it away..:(
However I'm sure in the future they'll let up. So we'll keep in touch.
Xoonaka @ Aug 15th 2007 11:13AM
Wow anonim1979, that's some good reading...
Kinda makes me sad about the AI processing. I didn't really care about graphics, I was hoping this generation would bring me better AI...
Seems like neither console is going to manage that, and that PS3 is even worse off.
Carlo @ Aug 15th 2007 12:05PM
meh..just damage control...i bet M$ paid ubi to have it exclusive on the 360 and now ubisoft is making an excuse as to why it cant be on the PS3.
doesnt really matter much to me though. I like Splinter Cell but I am willing to skip this one. Screw EMO Sam Fischer!! lmfao!!
ForceUnleashed @ Aug 15th 2007 12:39PM
Uhh showstopper?
Calm the fuck down.
I JUST bought my 360 Elite. And I'm waiting for this fall to play the awesome games that are coming out soon.
Are you stupid or something? Yes there are great games that have come out for the 360 already. And I could spend 3oo to 400 buying the ones I want. However I prefer to save that money and buy FUTURE titles!
Is that so hard to understand? Really quit with the idiotic insults. You make yourself look ignorant and retarded. I have two games simply because thats what I wanted at the time and I was thinking of the future...
Nice try though troll.
ForceUnleashed @ Aug 15th 2007 12:39PM
Uhh showstopper?
Calm the fuck down.
I JUST bought my 360 Elite. And I'm waiting for this fall to play the awesome games that are coming out soon.
Are you stupid or something? Yes there are great games that have come out for the 360 already. And I could spend 3oo to 400 buying the ones I want. However I prefer to save that money and buy FUTURE titles!
Is that so hard to understand? Really quit with the idiotic insults. You make yourself look ignorant and retarded. I have two games simply because thats what I wanted at the time and I was thinking of the future...
Nice try though troll.
Popfrogs @ Aug 15th 2007 12:42PM
Personally I don't really need enemies to be much smarter. I want game design and level design to be smarter.
Byron517 @ Aug 29th 2007 10:35AM
That's too funny you guys seriously!! How about we let the systems do the talking and see where that leads!! I swear sometimes these video games forums hold more HEATED debates then any presidential election! LMAO
Ste @ Aug 15th 2007 12:49PM
It's a little implausible that the PS3 is unable to handle the AI of a Splintercell game. It's able to handle the likes of heavenly sword (1000's at one time), MGS4 and Assassin's Creed - but not Splinter Cell? Sounds like dev laziness to me.
superaktieboy @ Aug 15th 2007 12:55PM
lol that guy who said PS3 cant handle it, should have done his home work before saying that, i mean even my little 8 year old brother knows that a PS3 is more powerfull in hardware than a 360!!
Parker @ Aug 15th 2007 1:15PM
Man, I get so sick of these lazy developers like Ubi and EA who instead of making a proper game make all of these half assed ports and then have the nerve to blame the PS3 for their own ineptitude.
Here you have many, many other developers making games from the ground up on the PS3 having NONE these so called ‘issues’ that an Ubi or EA claims to be having. MGS4 looks stunning, Epic loves the PS3, COD4 will be 60fps, Heavenly Sword and Lair are controlling hundreds of characters on screen. Hell, even Sony’s own developers have made 60fps at 1080p sports games. And you are telling me with all of the money and resources huge companies like EA and Ubi have at their disposal they cannot do what the Sony developers are doing? Give me a break.
Companies like EA and Ubi should be ashamed of themselves. Stop blaming the PS3 and do some actual work. This is not last generation; you cannot make one game and port it across three platforms anymore. You actually have put in time and effort to make a proper game for each console, individually. Apparently this is too much of a foreign concept for them to grasp so they lash out and blame the console instead taking the time and effort to try to learn something new. Its pathetic.
Thomas @ Aug 15th 2007 1:16PM
I believe that the PS3 can do it.. but can we find some damn body that can actually make it happen! EA can't get past 30fps for Madden, now the person from splinter cell says PS3 can't do AI... well the hell with it... if you can't program for the ps3, then don't touch it until you learn how.
Scott Krueger @ Aug 15th 2007 1:17PM
anonim1979
Just because some "Self Proclaimed Guru" writes an article on the Net does not make it True.
Plus this article was published June 2005 and contains the word "may" alot.
The 7 sub-processors on the PS3 can be tasked to do single tasks or multiple combinations. The Resistance Developers had 3 SPEs doing AI and the other 4 doing other tasks.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:18PM
What's so good about the xbox360? I'd never buy one.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:19PM
Mostly, students in remedial class or struggling in school buy xbox360's. Or they have low incomes...or both.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:21PM
How much have you paid for xboxlive already? What was that amount, again?
1) Low GPA
2) Low income
3) underaged or received toy as a gift
4) patriotic
Pick one, please.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:26PM
There aren't any good games on the xbox360. And the graphics are pretty average. That's why I bought two PS3's. I'm thinking of getting another one for another room. It plays movies well, you see. I wouldn't do that for an xbox360. the 360 is a piece of junk. Even EGM on page 35 of their february 2007 issue #212 said that the HD-DVD playback on the xbox360 is one of the worse on earth...so don't even compare prices between a 360 and a PS3. 360 is just junk, really. That's why with every iteration, it's trying to look more and more like it's hero - the PS3. Black? HDMI (not even HDMI 1.3 with the bigger color spectrum), quieter now, more reliable now, bigger harddrive? Sure looks like another system we already know of, doesn't it? It's called a PS3. What next? Cell? Hi-definition disc??? A ps3 logo???
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:29PM
The xbox360 is pretty expensive for a thing that only plays games, especially if it breaks down a lot. No wonder why only lesser intelligent people buy them. What were the nine good games that aren't alrady on the PS3 again? Just nine...please.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:31PM
We should coordinate a masacre in the xbot forum. Everyone of us coming in there at one time on the same day and blow them out of the water unexpectedly once and for all.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:32PM
After all, there are about 100-200 million playstation fans and only 6-10 million xbots asking for trouble by trolling around here. We can be nice only up to a certain point beforre we whip you one.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:43PM
Stay out of our rooms. We were tolerable enough to give you the benefit of the doubt and welcomed you at first. BUT you've worned your welcome. Xbots, shall we see you to the door? Harvard won't take you. You're lucky microsoft accepted you. Don't tarnish their reputation as a respectable, decent company and get out of here. I own shares in microsoft and don't appreciate your efforts. let me show you to the door. Get out. We don't appreciate you being here.
xbots, we don't want you in our community, our schools, or near our children...get out...
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:49PM
I hear more people saying that they're going to sell their 360 or save up for a PS3 rather than the other way around. I never hear anyone saying that they bought a PS3 and would rather sell it for the 360. In fact, I bought two PS3's and will buy another one. Don't think the 360 is worth the price based on the negative reviews that the media has been hiding not as well as it tries to. 360 is overpriced for a thing that only plays games -- averagely.
Plus, I used to not care about console wars at all beacuse I tend to buy them all. But this time around, looking at the behavior of XBOTS, I'm never going to buy the 360, ever. I know what kind of person I am and will not want to belong to the wrong crowd. People all around are beginning to think about sellilng their 360 or a PS3.
secret @ Aug 15th 2007 1:51PM
sell a 360 FOR a PS3, i meant.
Attea @ Aug 15th 2007 1:53PM
Secret, what the fuck is wrong with you?
optimusprime @ Aug 15th 2007 2:08PM
@ForceUnleashed
If you really like your wee and 3Suxty, why the hell are you arguing in the comments section of a website called PS3 FANBOY??? Like you said to each his own, so why don't you just stick to your own. You don't see me for example going to xbox360 fanboy and bad mouthing your console.
WebMaster @ Aug 15th 2007 2:30PM
Hey Nick,
Can you put a temp ban on secret or something. It's getting pretty pathetic when a PSfanboy trolls their own forums with some fact, alot of personal opinion presented as "fact" and littered with FUD.
MYPS3KilledMy360 @ Aug 15th 2007 2:35PM
@11 in the begining the invidia RSX was clocked at 500mghz now its clocked at 550mghz both graphics cards in both systems seem to be fairly equal its the cell that pushes it over the edge. for a Processor said to be one of the best todate i wouldnt expect anything less. How well they will perform will largely be down to the programmer, compiler and memory usage pattern, if the memory usage is predictable they should do well, if not they will do badly. Advanced branch prediction hardware is like Out of Order hardware, it only boosts performance sometimes. They say the PS3 is a rushed job and they through in the cell and some random grphics card they found but really the RSX goes han in han picking up the short commings of each other. Can we not compare CPU to GPU. you said xenon isnt that the ATI gpu for the 360. i know you want 10,000 PS3 fanboys jump and say say teh cell is teh coolest but lets compare CPU to CPU shall we. your ball.
BlackBeltJones @ Aug 15th 2007 2:39PM
First Assassin's Creed and now Splinter Cell, there must be some advantage for the 360 is developing AI or it wouldn't keep creeping up.
MYPS3KilledMy360 @ Aug 15th 2007 2:57PM
im sorry force i thought you said i just bought an elite. if im seeing right you should no longer speak on any forum regarding the PS3 or 360 claiming better games on either system. If the 360 had so many great games why didnt you buy it last year like i did. i enjoy playing games. i rather have story and gameplay over graphics any day but still i refuse to buy the wii. now i understand the reason for buying 2 games but your 360 defence is really thin now that you have barely owned the system probably less than a month now.
Andir3.0 @ Aug 15th 2007 2:57PM
"Can you put a temp ban on secret or something. It's getting pretty pathetic when a PSfanboy trolls [...] forums with some fact, alot of personal opinion presented as "fact" and littered with FUD." As long as you can ban WebMaster for the same...
Kev @ Aug 15th 2007 3:03PM
A similar kind of comment was made about Assassin's Creed. Apparently, due to the differences in hardware, the A.I. is slightly better on the 360. I also think I read a while back that the PS3 kicked butt at floating point calculations, but the 360 excelled at other things, like branches or something for A.I. (Not too sure of the exact word, I'm not completely up on my technical jargon.)
http://www.itvidya.com/playstation_3_vs_xbox_360 - "Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations."
"A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to."
And, no offense to PS3 fanboys (cos I am almost considering a PS3 purchase for Heavenly Sword), but Heavenly Sword's A.I. doesn't look as advanced as a game like Splinter Cell's, from what I've seen, especially compared to what the next Splinter Cell will be doing.
WebMaster @ Aug 15th 2007 3:24PM
Andir
You are so clever! Damn, I've missed that shallow wit of yours.
MYPS3KilledMy360 @ Aug 15th 2007 3:47PM
BlackBeltJones your talking about the same devs thant coudnt port a game properly to the PC. splinter cell sucked ass on the PC compared to the 360. No other devs have complained about having trouble with the AI send me a link to that PODCAST please i wish to hear it. I understand the reason for not building A. Creed on the PS3 now because if they couldnt port a finished game properly how the hell were they gonna build a completely new one in reality they made a smart move. They have gotten better though with GRAW2. 360 fanboys ask how long will it take to unlock teh power but the system hasnt been out a year yet. How long did it take to produce a 6 hour game that focused more on looks than actual content plus its safe to assume the PS3 is better being that the 360 dev kits were out 3 1/2 years compared to sony devs being the only ones who had it for a year. want to be fair Madden 06 to Madden 07 both close to release dates. People still talk as if the PS3 is ran on the cell alone and the 360 cpu doesnt exist. Splinter cell to me doesnt seem all that great in terms of AI, i dont understand what they are talking about the AI out flanking you isnt new, AI never being in the same spot aint new, A! using a different route aint new, AI noticing something you knocked over aint new, AI noticing you doing something funny aint new, AI changing to the situation aint new, Most of these things are found in GTA san andreas, CoD2 & 3, MGS series, Gears of War, RFOM maybe not every aspect is put into one game but most has been used already and that was on last gen consoles and first generation next gen titles. There must be a problem with the so called complex AI in conviction if there pushing it back into 08 since they show that as the biggest part of the game. from march they sounded like they had the physics and the graphics engine down i meen how many games have they made that look great so idnt see that as an excuse for delay on till 08.
WebMaster @ Aug 15th 2007 3:54PM
Kev:
Both are good platforms, and both appear to have their own advantages, as most who own both systems tend to agree. It's only the fanboys with a corporate cock in their mouth, either MS or Sonys, that seem to feel one or the other blows.
never$$hort @ Aug 15th 2007 5:18PM
@Webmaster,ForceUnleashed aka 360 trolls:
Its funny that we are hypocrites just because we PREFER the PS3 over the 360. We are all well aware of the short-comings of the PS3. You on the other hand I would classify in the catagory of HYPOCRITE because you constantly praise the 360 yet ever fail to mention its onslaught of defective qualities that it brings to the table. YES the 360 has more games at the moment (how many of these titles are actually good is highly questionable), to me thats where the line ends, after that the 360 is comparable to the PS3 if not worse. The 360 is definately worse in the quality-control area. We are on a PS3fanboy site, so what do you expect, FANBOYS, the difference is that a only a fraction of PS3 owners troll 360 sites trashing the system every chance they get. 360 trolls are EVERYWHERE on EVERY site demeaning and trashing the PS3 every chance they get and if the PS3 or Sony has a problem that issue gets blasted to front page of the media no matter how minor or miniscule that event is. All of M$ bad press gets buried away quickly before the masses even catch wind of it. I have posted these links before and I will post them again because it seems you 360 fanboys just dont get how much TROUBLE your system of choice is in, and its in deep shit...
Report: Xbox 360 in danger of becoming distant third:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=126688
Sony reports fewer losses than Microsoft:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=125488
Xbox division posts $1.9B loss over last year:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=123948
Feature: Six Reasons The Xbox 360 Is in Trouble:
http://gamepro.com/microsoft/xbox360/games/features/124008.shtml
Source: Future Xbox 360 games to require hard drive:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127148
Source: Microsoft to launch new Xbox 360 in months:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=127968
Microsoft confirms HDMI port addition to Xbox 360:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=128348
NYT: Halo 3 takes the sting out of failing Xbox 360s:
http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=128708
-Most of these sources prove that the biggest hypocrites of all is Microsoft themselves!! They say you all don't need things and bash Sony publically about adding them, and then what do they do, THEY ADD THEM... You call us blind fanboys but then what are you???
PS- you want more I got more for you, this was the summarized version, I hate all this dam typing to set you guys straight but I will if you keep asking for it...
johnxmzzhang @ Aug 15th 2007 5:49PM
... Lol Showstopper, you make urself look like an ass on the net. Just cuz u have more games than other people dont mean that u are any better than they are..... In fact it means that u spend more time cooped up in your room playing video games. I hope that one day you will realize that there is a life outside of gaming..... lmao
ShaleX @ Aug 15th 2007 6:32PM
Well, since all you PS3 fanbots have played Splinter Cell 5, I guess I hold no candle to your expertise of the gameing world and the challenges of development. But, you know, I'll try.
This stiff is clearly sensationalized for flame worthy discussion. I mean, Even if the 360's AI abilities are stronger, the question is, would it be percieveable to the player? And even then if it was meant to be multi-platform in the first place, most devs design around the weakness of the different platforms. But in this case, the game was designed with the 360 in mind. SO their engine was built with the 360 in mind. Sure i COULD be ported, but with the vast differences of the hardware, that's as good as developing another game!
And why put that much money into a console with half the install base, who dosen't seem to be accepting of the series anyway (Let's forget that laystation seems to get the gimped versions of all the splinter cell games anyway) Splinter Cell is very much known as an Xbox franchise, much like MGS is known as a Playstation franchise. Sure it's been on other platforms, but the best are on the playstations.
So, let them be Lazy.... most PS3 fans weren't planning on getting it anyway. It makes no sense for them to spend another year, re-engineering a new engine, and well, re-developing the game, so that 200,000 more copies can be sold.