Analysts debate the effect of the Madden PS3 fps debacle
Is Madden's 30 fps performance on PS3 hurting Sony? Two analysts have very differing opinions on how EA's football game might be affecting public view of the PS3. UBS analyst Ben Schachter noted that: "given Madden's popularity and the volume of this debate, we think this is a more meaningful negative for Sony than investors might realize, as it gives gamers just one more reason not to buy a PS3 this year following the slip of GTA IV. It is a positive for MSFT."
However, Wedbush Morgan Securities analyst Michael Pachter disagrees. In a statement to GameDaily BIZ, he comments: "There are obviously PS3 games that look fantastic (have you played Resistance, Motorstorm, or seen Call of Duty 4?). It's not an issue with the PS3 ... Eventually (as in next year), EA will figure it out, and nobody will care."
Microsoft has been heavily promoting Madden 2008 for Xbox 360, hoping it becomes the console of choice for what is a yearly bestseller. However, Pachter is frustrated that media that calls attention to the Madden debacle hasn't focused on something he thinks is a far bigger concern: "One would think that stupid analysts would be writing about the 360 warranty issue, and how people will avoid that box until they can be assured that they won't see the 'three red rings of death.'" Those are fighting words!
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Kspraydad @ Aug 17th 2007 8:51PM
I've been a SONY user since PS1 (PS1/2/PSP) and due to monetary contraints have looked at the 360 over the last year vs. the PS3.
The number 1 reason I haven't jumped ship is that I do not trust Xbox's reliablity and warranty or not it isn't worth the hassle to me to deal with faulty goods.
I'll be playing Madden 09 on a PS3 I guess (since that is when I think I'll be able to afford one/justify one)
MS could have done so much better if it had machines that didn't fail. Imagine what 1.5 billion (at least) wasted on repairs/warranty extentions could have bought in terms of exclusives to Xbox.
Shori @ Aug 17th 2007 8:58PM
I agree that it's being blown way out of proportion. PS3 sales of the game have been just as healthy as the Xbox 360 and PS2 versions in locations I've seen.
Titty Pink @ Aug 17th 2007 9:00PM
I played the 360 version and the same dumb defenses and Vick's ability to drop back 30 yards and hit a guy 20 yards past the line of scrimmage persist, not to mention a host of other things that will keep me from buying this year's installment. 60 fps or not, its STILL mediocre at best...
John @ Aug 17th 2007 9:18PM
This is an interesting debate, because as fanboys we're well-informed, and we consider the problem to be EA's, based on, as one analyst mentioned, the shining great ps3 games that are only ps3.
But this sort of comparison tends to make news, tends to make headlines, and the average consumer is going to see those headlines.
And, as the analyst also pointed out-- why didn't the other analyst bring up the profoundly strange dying 360 phenomenon?
I assure you that Microsoft is using every ounce of their influence on the mediawaves to keep the facts down and the hype up.
Notice that whenever a port comes out, there is this competition, a dual-screen version of a game made originally on 360 then ported incompetently to ps3 (remember EA's fight game?)
If there is not a side-by-side comparison of Dirt, then we'll know that something is up.
never$$hort @ Aug 17th 2007 9:26PM
They act like everyone plays Madden or something, I for one hate sports games in general(excluding racing & fighting games)those are only games I dont play, I havent played sports games since NBA Jam... So I wouldnt call this a life or death situation for the PS3. I have a feeling M$ is behind publicizing this retardedness to draw attention away from thier negative press which is much more life or death, LITERALLY...
bababooey @ Aug 17th 2007 9:58PM
Wow, No xbots commenting on this yet....soon very soon.. I love my PS3, and would probably not have gotten it if it did not have blue ray. I will not be getting this game, I love sports game but will not support EA on this one.
gorephuzz @ Aug 17th 2007 10:09PM
@5 You act like because YOU dont play madden that noone else does. Madden is one of the highest selling games for any system every year.
Gunegune @ Aug 17th 2007 10:27PM
I don't think most people care about how many frames per second the game runs (if they even have TVs that will display at 60fps). Most will, play it just because it's Madden. Heck, most people won't even play it on the next-gen (which I guess would now be current-gen) systems.
I don't care much anyway. I'll just go play football outside at a frame rate as high as my brain will interpret.
Mick @ Aug 17th 2007 10:41PM
It has a 3 year warranty now for the RROD! And as far as it not being written about, Please!
hoffer @ Aug 17th 2007 11:17PM
The 360 is definitely not reliable. I'm on my third. At least they have a good warranty and repair service. I've had no problems with them.
I watched The 1up Show a little bit ago. They showed side by side video of the two Madden's. It was glaringly obvious the PS3 version was inferior. The video was of guys running down the field. The white lines on the field looked to skip and stutter on the PS3, but where smooth on the 360.
I don't really care. I don't play sports games.
mccomber @ Aug 17th 2007 11:18PM
The people who make Madden a hit aren't the sort of people that pay attention to what the framerate of a title is. They are the people that go to the store and buy the games they want, reviews, specs and comparisons be damned.
Bluebrake @ Aug 17th 2007 11:40PM
Schachter and Pachter? Who's naming these analysts?
Matt B @ Aug 18th 2007 12:02AM
EA is not getting my money this year for Madden. And I've bought it every year on the PC since Madden 2000 at launch. Been in the same leagues for years all the way til now. It's a roster update and is the same engine they have used for the past 3 years with some animation adjustments.
Andy @ Aug 18th 2007 12:11AM
I would have got Madden if EA threw PS3 owners a bone.
>
Take advantage of the extra space, include 30 more music tracks or highlite reels from last season.
>
THE @ Aug 18th 2007 12:14AM
to be honest, its EA. lazy simple as that. im from the UK, but got completely addicted to the madden. but owning both the ps3 and 360, ps3 in the long run is my choice, but fine i would be worried if lets say, a 'good' development team had this issue, but its EA people, im not even sure what the fuss is about.
Darkdrium777 @ Aug 18th 2007 12:58AM
LMAO Bluebrake :D
AG @ Aug 18th 2007 1:16AM
Wow..this website is full of retard writers...Madden's 30FPS for PS3 won't make me not buy a PS3. It will make me NOT BUY MADDEN.
I'm still buying a PS3 for all the other games that are already of the PS3 family and going to be of the PS3 family. I am a 21 year old gamer. I live on old school rules; buy games worth the dollar. Madden for PS3 isn't. Madden 2007 period was garbage for NEXT GEN.
It tells me EA SPORTS SUCKS. Like how luckily NBA 2K7 was the only game for PS3. It showed me that people were right about 2K sports being the better sports games. Thats why EA SPORTS is adding all the "extra new stuff" to their games. Because they suck so bad, that people jumped ship before they sank.
Screw EA sports and Madden.
Now I'm just going to play NBA 2K8, NHL 2K8, Winning 11: Pro Evo Soccer 2008, and any other sports games that come out of 2K sports. Hopefully they will make a nice boxing game with all the boxers in the world in it, including MIKE TYSON, GEORGE FORMAN, and Other great fighters from around the world.
And again, ONE GAME doesn't help sell systems, PS3 still has all the games of 360, we didn't lose any games (exclusives isn't losing the game itself idiots), we are having plenty more, we are getting new exclusives from major developers, so believe me, EA SPORTS can stick to XBOX 360. I won't ever touch either POOR PIECE OF GRADE A GARBAGE QUALITY games or system.
Doug @ Aug 18th 2007 2:28AM
This has been an interesting issue.
My brother (who is also my roommate) is one of the biggest PS3 fans out there. But he bought Madden to run on my 360 instead of getting the PS3 version because of its smoother video. I doubt this trend will continue, but if this were to keep happening with other sports titles (that's what he plays) I could see him jumping ship on the PS3. Between that and Guitar Hero II he spends at least as much time on my 360 as he does on his PS3 now (since his GH2 doesn't play right on the PS3). One game may not be a problem for the PS3, but IF (and it's a big unlikely IF) this type of thing was to become the norm instead of an exception, Sony would have a small problem on their hands.
To the person who commented above that 60 fps isn't enough.... I'm afraid that's all you're going to get out of an SD/HDTV for a long time to come. The 120Hz models don't count, because they still only take a 60Hz signal.
And contrary to what some may believe, not all 360s die. I have a launch console and its still working just fine.
gerg @ Aug 18th 2007 2:51AM
EA just sucks, as we all know. I owned a 360 until I had two RROD issues, then sold the refurb on ebay, and bought a PS3 last Saturday. The best hardware purchase I've ever made. For one, I only owned a PS2 for a very short time and missed out on a lot of games last gen, and I cannot tell you how long it's been since I'd seen the intro movie to FFVII. I love my PS3 and now that I have it, with HDMI, there is NO way I would ever give it up. 30 FPS be damned, actually being able to play a game is worth so much more than a top notch framerate. I'm going with Pachter on this one, I will buy another 360 when the new chipsets are on the shelves, but will continue to get all multiplatform games on PS3 so I can have that peace of mind knowing that if my 360 breaks, I'll have games to play. The Wii only goes so far, you know.
Josh @ Aug 18th 2007 5:10AM
I dont think that this will hurt ps3 sales at all really. People that care enough to know about the framerate difference are probably big enough gamers to own a ps3 for other games anyways, and I have a feeling that the average joe consumer that likes to get madden to play with his buddies wont know/care about the difference. I havent seen either being played, but I am sure that the game is quite playable at 30fps, the developers are trying to sell a decent game after all, no matter which system its on. I could be wrong,I'm not into sports games and have never owned one. Well besides blades of steel on the NES. fun game
Jypson @ Aug 18th 2007 7:08AM
Has anyone else noticed that every game thats ported TO the PS3 looks like crap? I was playing Rainbow Six last night and couldn't believe how bad it looked. I was also very dissapointed w/ the GRAW 2 demo graphics. The PS3 exclusive graphics always look top notch, so whats going on with these ports? It's not like they're last gen games getting coded over. It makes me nervous w/ games like GTA IV coming out...I really don't want to buy it for my 360 for it to look decent.
Shikoku @ Aug 18th 2007 7:22AM
i didn't buy a ps3 for these games so doesn't really affect me
Naaiif @ Aug 18th 2007 8:08AM
Idiots will say that the x360 version sold more than the ps3 version because of it's superior frame rate.
The frame rate doesn't matter, these games are aimed at the casual audience who can't tell the difference. Madden will sell more on the x360 this year, not because it has a superior frame rate, but because there are currently 6 million 360's in the US (The only place where Madden sells), where as there's less than 2 million ps3's in the US.
Jer @ Aug 18th 2007 8:47AM
I hate the fact that this is being twisted into "The PS3 is incapable of 60fps" Uninformed consumers will either shy away from getting a PS3 thinking is inferior to the 360 or just don't care. Frankly I don't care. Informed consumers and PS3 owners like myself know what the PS3 is capable of and it's a shame that PS3 owners are getting games that have been half assed due to lazy developers or just bad port jobs.
Frankenstein Black @ Aug 18th 2007 9:55AM
What happens after the 3 years are up on that Xbox 360 warranty? I'll tell you what, MS will be in full production of the Box they should have made (cooler chipset, HDMI, perhaps a built in HiDef drive) and SUCKERS, er current XBox owners (since consoles don't age like whine) will be stuck with an increasing problem and have to buy an Xbox 360 all over again so that they can continue to enjoy their library of games.
You know what they say, "FOOLS RUSH IN!"
Carlo @ Aug 18th 2007 10:05AM
i think EA doesnt really have the right to put Madden on 30FPS because thats what they did last year when they released it for PS3. They had a lot of time to make it 60FPS but they didnt.
I wouldve understood it if it was NHL 08 because this is the first time EA Sports is bringing NHL to the PlayStation 3. But this is the second time EA Sports is bringing Madden to the PS3. And yet, NBA Live 08 for the PS3 is in full 60FPS. EA Sports are full of excuses. They better get there act together.
Andy @ Aug 18th 2007 10:59AM
On a SDTV can you notice the difference between 30 and 60 fps?
Whats the point of having 100 fps. Your eye can only see 75 so the rest will come out as a blur.
eurotransient @ Aug 18th 2007 12:05PM
I have to agree with previous comments that point out that the majority of people who buy Madden and make it the massive selling game that it is generally do not pay attention to these kinds of technical issues. All they see is (a) new Madden and (b) it's on a system that I have access to.
A friend of mine doesn't own either a 360 or a PS3, but his roommate has both set up in the living room, so he plays them all the time. With Madden coming out, he was going to buy it and I suggested he pick it up on the 360 because of the frame rate hikes. However, he didn't really care at all because for him, it all boils down to brand loyalty. He's not into the technical aspects, even when confronted by the fact that he'd likely have a better experience playing it on one system over the other. It was simply a "well, I'm a Sony guy" thing. We had this same discussion a couple months ago when I told him I'd be picking up GTA IV on the 360. He made a face at me as if to say, "What would you do something stupid like that for?" Even after I described the promise of exclusive downloadable content on the 360 to him, he still wasn't convinced.
"I'm a Sony guy."
Figboy @ Aug 18th 2007 12:47PM
and just think, euro, there are 115 *MILLION PS2 owners out there, that have grown with the Playstation brand over the past 11 years.
when those people move on to a next gen system, which one do you think they're going to buy?
the one who had it's previous incarnation dropped after 4 years because of the new hotness, which in turn, has a "little" issue with hardware reliability, or the company that has, for 11 years, given them some great gaming experiences (ie, FFVII, Castlevania: SOTN, God of War, MGS, etc)?
i'm thinking, that PS2 owners will move toward the PS3, simply because we don't like to just "give up" our PS2 games when the new system comes out.
i own about 60 PS2 games. a lot of them i haven't beaten yet.
when i was in the market for a next gen system, i looked at factors like price, features/value, backwards compatability, and current and future software lineup; announced and speculated (ie Sly Cooper PS3, and God of War 3).
at the end of the day, the PS3 had what i wanted, and considering that it's looking like the inclusion of Blu Ray was a good idea on Sony's part (for both games *AND movies), it's a great choice. at the now lowered price of $500, it's an even *BETTER deal.
that's not to say i don't *WANT an X Box 360, i actually *DO (Mass Effect, Alan Wake, and Bioshock really have me excited), i just can't see myself forking out $450 (Elite) for a console that may break down, and is constantly getting new SKUs with features that *SHOULD have been included on day one (ie, HDMI, and a HD DVD drive).
i admit that i am a "Sony guy," but i'd like to have *ALL the systems at some point in the future (well, except the Wii, that console does *NOTHING for me; which is a shame, i've been playing Nintendo games and consoles since i was 6 back in 1985), but i view myself as a smart consumer, and if i'm going to pay over $400 for something, it better damn well *WORK.
a 3 year warranty is good, but why should i be terrified to turn on my system, for fear that it may red ring on me at any moment?
my roommate has both the PS3 and the 360, and he *BARELY plays the 360 because he doesn't want it to ring out on him.
to tie this into the topic, he actually bought the PS3 version of Madden over the 360 version, and he didn't seem to have any problems with the game's framerate (and he's a hardcore gamer like myself, so he knows *ALL ABOUT the 30/60fps ridiculousness).
30fps was such a high standard and touted goal of the PS2/X Box/GC era, with the media and gamers everywhere saying how games were running at a silky smooth 30fps (ie, games like God of War, Jak and Daxter, Timesplitters, RE4, etc), but now, apparently 30fps *ISN'T smooth anymore? how does that figure?
60fps is *GREAT, i agree. all games should try for this, but isn't Gears of War 30fps? isn't Resistance: Fall of Man 30fps?
so *WHY is this a big deal?
EA is cheap, and lazy. it costs money to learn the PS3 architecture, and they don't want to devote the money or manpower to maximize.
when you have 1st 2nd, and other 3rd party companies releasing games at 60fps (and often in 1080p to boot), with draw-dropping visuals (think Uncharted, Ratchet, Lair, and Heavenly Sword), there is simply *NO EXCUSE for EA to
1: have a game that *LOOKS as asstacular as Madden 08, and,
2: have a game that runs at 30fps.
*NO EXCUSE. *AT ALL.
andrew @ Aug 18th 2007 12:50PM
All I have to say is this: how many people bought madden 07 last year for ps2? A shitload is the correct answer and that game had serious issues visually. Every play the movement of players between play calling was always choppy.
Bangbang... @ Aug 18th 2007 1:16PM
You know what I find hilarious about this site. Apparently, 90% of its readers have at one point owned multiple 360s. I'm not trying to troll, its just an observation.
In regards to the article, I dont think that Madden running at 30fps on the ps3 is the real issue. The real issuse is that Madden on the ps3 does not run smoothly at 30fps. To the best of my knowledge, every madden game on the ps2, xbox, and even the 360 have been at a steady 30fps and there were no problems or low scores becasue of it. They reason the Madden for the ps3 is getting dragged though the mud is becasue it frequently drops below 30 frames which visibly impacts the game(button presses lag and game momentarily freezes). I personally believe that no one would have noticed that the two versions had different frame rates if 1.)EA didnt announce it, and 2.)the ps3 version ran smoothly at 30fps.
TRUTH @ Aug 18th 2007 1:55PM
Well I'll get it for the 360, Maybe next time PS3... Maybe Next time...
Well @ least Wild Hogs is out on Blu Ray!
Jypson @ Aug 18th 2007 2:19PM
Wild Hogs? lol
derrickgott007 @ Aug 18th 2007 2:58PM
The 30fps debacle is simply because EA is in bed with Microsoft.
To paraphrase it, There is an ex-microsoft bigwig taking control of EA sports, and an ex-EA bigwig taking control of Moore's vacated postion at Microsoft.
Proof:
"Last week, Microsoft said its game chief, Peter Moore, will leave to become head of EA Sports. Moore's replacement at Microsoft will be Don Mattrick, a former EA executive who has been a high-level adviser for months."
Anthony Pittarelli @ Aug 19th 2007 5:09AM
i think analists think people care about football more than anyone actually does, look at the 2nd gen of ps3 games, they mostly look fantastic!
Bangbang... @ Aug 19th 2007 9:32AM
"The 30fps debacle is simply because EA is in bed with Microsoft."
IF thats the real reason, then MS is also in bed with 2k, Namco, and Ubisoft since all of their products appear to look better on the 360.(RR,Splinter Cell, All Pro Football)
James @ Aug 19th 2007 11:14AM
I'll tell you what really pissed me off yesterday more than anything - I went to the Gamestop at South Street Seaport in Manhattan only to find the PS2 version of Madden running on the PS3. Why are they doing this? I knew it was the PS2 version by graphics and when I hit the PS button on the controller I saw analog mode enabled.
The only thing that comforted me was that there was no 360 to play with, so comparisons couldn't be made. However, there was a Wii and the Wii version of Madden definitely looks better than the PS2 version running on the PS3.
JcbAlb @ Aug 19th 2007 6:35PM
Here's the way I see it:
1. Is the Madden series THAT full of themselves that they refuse to re-write code? I havent seen anything that comes across as groundbreaking for them with the next gen consoles. No one can tell me that they are unable to produce better graphics, animations, and framerates with even the 360.
2. It almost looks like they are using the equivalent of an emulator for the PS3 to run the 360 version. What a sloppy effort it is.
3. Why not try using the tools at their disposal. Picture blocking using the sixaxis controller. (sounds cool to me at least)
4. To say you can't afford a console means you should get a PS3. Save $2 per day and you can get one in 8 months. (that means you could have one already) So money is no excuse.
Saigon @ Aug 20th 2007 8:27AM
Stuff like this makes me wish tecmo bowl was back
Bangbang... @ Aug 20th 2007 12:47PM
"Microsoft always makes inferior products and dupes people into buying them. The zune is a horrible product, windows is just a mess, so the trend continues."
How many PS2 shipped with miss aligned lasers and disc drives that would spin disc too fast to be read? How many Ps1 had lasers that slid back and forth on a plastic plate until the laser wore a groove in the plate and stopped moving? How many Vaio laptops had batteries that either exploded or quit working?
Company loyalty is stupid isnt it?
Every company makes mistakes, but thats not important. What's important is how the company deals with the mistake.
RemzVkru @ Aug 20th 2007 5:17PM
first off i'm sick of xbox 360 owners who say the ubiquitous line "i have a launch 360 and it works fine" yea jackasses the failure rate is 30% not 100%, that means 70% work........yay. It's nothing to gloat about that your system still works, you got lucky is the proper phrase for it. Microsoft always makes inferior products and dupes people into buying them. The zune is a horrible product, windows is just a mess, so the trend continues. And please stop with this halo nonsense, it will not sell the console, the only people buying it are the ones who already have a 360 and played the other 2 overrated games. The worth of the game is only good if you play it online with a bunch of degenerate kids who curse and yell and act like fools. What a great experience that is. The game brings nothing new to the table so please drop it!!
Nick @ Aug 20th 2007 7:10PM
I own both consoles so i`m not really worried.Although i am sick of lazy developers making piss poor titles for the ps3,It`s about time sony told them to get their s**t together.One poor game won`t tarnish a machine,But if the trend continues it definetly will.But i have faith that there is better to come for ps3 like killzone 2 metal gear solid and pro evo 2008 will do the business.But i`m afraid people trying to say the 360 is a good machine are talking out their arse.The games for 360 are great the console is not FACT.I`m on my second 360 and all of my friends have had to have replacement machines so i think that speaks for itself
big ike @ Sep 3rd 2007 6:54PM
can anybody help me with my o-line qb protection
big ike @ Sep 3rd 2007 7:00PM
can any body help with qb protection madden 08 ps3
Robert @ Oct 18th 2007 2:23AM
I like Sony Playstation 1,2,3, and PSP and I use to play Nintendo games before the first Playstation cameout so FPS and or Graphics don't phase me nowdays.
I never brought an X-Box 1 or 360 because I am not paying to play online against someone plus also paying for my DSL connection also causing me to pay double on playing online games. Sony charges nothing so I'm sticking with them.
I don't hate Micro$oft or the X-Box I just don't want to toss out that kind of money to play even the best game online like Halo 1-3 or other games.
As long as Sony or other game develpoers have games I like to play on a PlayStation I will continue to play on a Playstation system.
The only thing that can hurt a system is Terrible games that suck period, not FPS whether it be 5,10,20,30,60 FPS.
Plus I still like Nintendo so I will have a Wii and a PS3 side by side in 2008.
I'm just waiting for the price drops beforer I buy a system because they will eventually happen.