Church of England doesn't like Resistance's BAFTA award

by Chris Powell { Oct 10th 2007 at 9:30AM }

Okay, this is just getting plain ridiculous. The Church of England, after initially threatening legal action against Sony if it didn't pull Resistance: Fall of Man from store shelves, is now complaining about the game's recent nomination for an award at the British Academy of Film and Television Arts.

You might remember that Insomniac spun the church into a tizzy when it included the Manchester Cathedral as a playable level in Resistance. Why is this such a big deal? We really don't know, but The Dean of Manchester Cathedral, the Very Rev Rogers Govender said they were disgusted "at the virtual desecration of Manchester Cathedral."

Of course, the church wants Resistance pulled as a nominee for the PC World Gamers' Award and has said the bad publicity has actually helped the game's sales. That's funny, because when you think about it, who's ultimately responsible for the game's bad press, and according to Govender, the game's increased sales?

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

ruibing @ Oct 10th 2007 9:45AM

They are probably just trying to get some media spotlight by playing the vigilant crusader. Sad.

coplice @ Oct 10th 2007 9:46AM

what about all the witchs the church burned, its way more disgusting >.>

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 10:01AM

@2 That's a bad understanding of history, very very little of that went on in England. Most of it happened in the Americas.

I don't think the game should be pulled but I DO see their point, maybe if we all tried to see each others point a little more often the world would be a better place and we might get on a lot more.

momegao @ Oct 10th 2007 10:06AM

That's stupid. But we can see movies with killings on churches, making orgies or stuff like that. Anyways, anything that helps to drive sales of something is a good thing for the company. The game has the representation of the church, not the church itself, like on movies, that they have to make the scenes on the actual place.

Lee Richards @ Oct 10th 2007 10:11AM

So they're upset? Screw 'em.

JackMichael- @ Oct 10th 2007 10:24AM

sad thing is you spend about 5 minutes in the church, its not even a whole level.

And in a way your actually defending the church from the chimera (bad guys), and in the intelligence reports the church is put across as a place of sanctuary.

Honestly if they actually played the level with the church in they would see that its no "virtual desecration of Manchester Cathedral."

n3rd @ Oct 10th 2007 10:31AM

@2 yea ironically, the witch burnings occured in America by people who were "escaping" the "persecution" of the Church of England
besides, who really cares about a church founded on the principle of allowing King Henry to just keep on divorcing wives

Twelve @ Oct 10th 2007 10:55AM

The Church of England doesn't represent all of Christianity, so please let's not try to dis all Christians over this. I'm a Christian, not in the Church of England, and believe what they are doing here is foolish. They must be bored. They would be better going out and doing what God told them to do.

acefondu @ Oct 10th 2007 11:12AM

@8. They probably are doing what they think god is telling them to do. Everyone who believes in god thinks he says stuff, and ironically god only says stuff people want to hear. How many people would believe in a god that didn't agree with their own life views? No one. Which is why they are indeed doing what they think god is "telling" them.

psocrates @ Oct 10th 2007 11:15AM

umm between 1558 - 1944 a minimum of 1000 men and women were executed for wichcraft in the uk (probably more as the witchfiders were paid on how many they "uncovered")
post 6 makes a good point but forgot to mention that the altar and any other religious iconography has been removed from the game so in fact the location could be any one of many cathederals in england (and maybe elsewhere)
I cant help feeling that perhaps the church has simply jumped on this issue in a vain hope of boosting their popularity.

psfan @ Oct 10th 2007 11:22AM

When did this turn into a religious debate? oh yea. the church. well. i for one am tired of europe having their panties in a bunch. man hunt 2 has been banned not once but twice now. they wanted to ban resistance, a formal appology, and wanted donations from sony. wtf?!? is anyone ever happy with controversal stuff? its a video game. nobody is going to fight aliens in your church. no one is going bother your church. it's a scene in a video game. be happy

Charles @ Oct 10th 2007 11:26AM

@ 3 & 7. Do you Americans know nothing about the world outside of America? There were only 36 witch executions in America and 29 of them were related to the incident in Salem. This compares to over 12,500 recorded witch executions in Europe, though the estimated figure is supposed listed closer to 65,000:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt#Executions

DownwardMonkey next time you might want to check you facts before shooting off your mouth with an absurdly inaccurate statement like: “That's a bad understanding of history, very very little of that went on in England. Most of it happened in the Americas.”

acefondu @ Oct 10th 2007 11:27AM

This is just as bad as people being upset over shooting black people in the new RE5. I didn't Spain getting upset over RE4. Everyone needs to quit whining and grow up. Until a game has YOUR picture and YOUR name on it and making offensive use of it then shut up.

psocrates @ Oct 10th 2007 11:33AM

@13 hell they put me in a game i'd be as happy as anything, the world needs more of a sense of humour maybe if someone had just laughed in the Very Rev Rogers Govender's face when he started whining maybe he would have seen how ridiculous he was being

Paul @ Oct 10th 2007 11:33AM

What 12 said.

And to further clear up the confusion, we (in America that is) didn't actually burn any witches....we hung our witches. Someone was "pressed" death which sounds to me about as horrible as being burned.

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 11:51AM

@12 I honestly started to have this argument with you and then stopped, deleted it all because I really can't be bothered. I'm not getting into an argument with people that copy and paste what they read on wiki and google searches as fact. The witch burning "facts" presented about the UK are often very very very mis-informed and most of it happened 100s and 100s of years ago, not in the late 20th century as was the case in the US.

All I see here is a bunch of people getting their pants in a twist that the Church of England is upset about one of their places of worship being used in a violent game.

Do I agree with them? No. I am a christian? No. But frankly I think most of the people posting here just fail to accept that sometimes some people get annoyed and upset about things that wouldn't normally bother you and maybe they have a view point that should have been considered before hand.

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 11:54AM

The fact of the matter is that they had to be careful about Vegas and being sued in R6, why shouldn't the church feel the same way about one of their buildings?

Chameleon @ Oct 10th 2007 12:17PM

yeah, but you weren't killing aliens in vegas.

JaseH @ Oct 10th 2007 12:32PM

Lol. Imagine if it was an iconic Muslim Mousque...

Hehe.

^^

psocrates @ Oct 10th 2007 12:51PM

@16/17 check the figures for yourself there are many many books on the subject or if you prefer just take the accepted christian medias view on what happened
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/t-z/witch.html
remember this article only covers events in one county of the uk!

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 1:24PM

*sigh* If people would go back to the start and read the first posts they would see that this has nothing to do with witches being burnt/hung but on the Church of England doing it. First of all the first "witch" to be burnt was in the mid 1500s and the last in late 1600s.

The USA declared independence in 1776 and the Salem trials took place in 1692. OF COURSE England burnt/hung more witches in total. That's like saying that a small country like Scotland doesn't have a weight problem just because there are more fat people in America.

The FACT is that a lot of people had themselves hung or burt for standard crimes in England which has made many records very inaccurate.

...oh screw it, you know what. Lets throw my PhD out of the window because you're just going to find another "fact" on the internet from someone you've never heard of to post instead.

As pointed out, if this was a story about a Muslim Mosque it would be a different story altogether. The COE has a right to say what happens to their building just like anyone else and while I DON'T agree I DO see their point.

Juney @ Oct 10th 2007 1:58PM

What i dont understand is how they found out this was in the game in the first place....

i can imagine the reverend now....

"DIE U CHIMERA SCUM.... oo wtf?!?!? aint that my church?!?!?!?! HOLY CRAP!!!" (no pun intended)

psocrates @ Oct 10th 2007 2:14PM

@21 sorry name one "standard" crime that anybody has EVER been burnt for in the uk? and as been stated on this post before the building in the game bares little resemblance to the real cathedral your not killing humans in it and there is not one peice of religious iconography! This whole issue has never been any suposed desecration of their place of worship but about the fact that for some reason the COE seem to feel they are entitled to some of the profits from the game

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 2:41PM

*sigh again*

Heresy, possessing equipment for counterfeiting, counterfeiting, murder also there are reports for, treason and lesser treason, Mostly women received the burning sentence though because they couldn't be seen naked for hung and drawn. Reports of burning for crimes goes all the way back into the late 1100s/early 1200s I can't remember the date off the top of my head.

It doesn't matter how much you get your panties in a twist. It is THEIR building and they have a right to say how it is used, why pray tell should this be an issue in R6 Vegas but not for a famous iconic church in England?

Again, I don't agree but I still see them has having a fair point. It's THEIR building.

psocrates @ Oct 10th 2007 3:09PM

erm my point is the cases where burning was used as a punishment in the uk were hardly "standard" as you said.
I never said that it should have been an issue for R6 in fact the its their building arguement leads ultimately to us never playing games in real locations for fear of offending someone and isnt that at the end of the day a form of censorship?

Twelve @ Oct 10th 2007 3:48PM

God only says what people want to hear? Hahaha...that's funny. As a Christian, I want to do all kinds of things that are wrong. I wish you were right! But...

Err. Sorry. Wrong on that one, #9.

These people are up in arms over a BUILDING. Christ was actually quite the opposite about buildings. (laughs)

Nah, this mess is ridiculous in every way, form and fashion. Not even godly.

linebeginstoblur @ Oct 10th 2007 4:00PM

Everyone.

It's not just a religious thing.

You would understand better if you actually researched this matter yourself. This was said by Bishop of Manchester, Rt Rev Nigel McCulloch:

"It is well known that Manchester has a gun crime problem. For a global manufacturer to re-create one of our great Cathedrals with photo-realistic quality and then encourage people to have gun battles in the building is beyond belief and highly irresponsible. We know the reality of gun crime and the devastating effects it can have on the lives -- it is not a trivial matter."

It has nothing to do with God. They're already having issues in the real Manchester Cathedral, and they feel like this is adding salt to the wounds.

At the same time, however, I found it interesting that, when the church started getting really upset about all this, sales of the game went up. Personally, I don't think the game should be penalized, but I do understand their point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resistance:_Fall_of_Man#Controversy_with_Manchester_Cathedral.2C_England

Charles @ Oct 10th 2007 4:47PM

@21 We know this has nothing to do with witches being burned. However the conversation moved to that topic and in post 2 you declared “That's a bad understanding of history, very very little of that went on in England. Most of it happened in the Americas.”

In response to your comment various people, including myself, pointed out you were mistaken by saying “very very little of that went on in England” and “Most of it happened in the Americas.” Instead of simply admitting you made a mistake you started desperately trying to explain your way out of your rather ill informed comment.

You’ve now even changed your stance from “very very little of that went on in England” and “Most of it happened in the Americas” to the exact opposite position that “OF COURSE England burnt/hung more witches in total” so you’ve admitted you were wrong but tried to make it look as if you were right from the beginning. Unfortunately the only thing you’ve achieved with this is to convince everyone that you’re a bit of an arrogant arsehole who can’t admit when he has made a mistake.

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 10th 2007 5:09PM

@28 Look if you can't be bothered to read all my posts then I'll make it very simple for you. Records showing burnings in England are very unreliable because of the number of women burnt and hung for other offenses while the men in England had themselves hung/drawn/quatered for the same offense.

When the details are looked at, by an expert (and not someone quoting wiki) then the details become very very sketchy and England carried out very very few actual OFFICIAL church burnings of "witches" when you look around at other parts of europe.

I made a overly simple post about a complicated and less than black and white subject and I shouldn't have. I should have known better and know that 5 other people with access to google would have something to say.

So yes, you're right England did officially burn/hang more witches than the America but over a far far far larger period of time and I was simply trying to make a quick reply to a very silly post about the Church of England burning witches before I went to eat.

I'd like to know where wiki poster is getting the estimated 1000 witches burnt in England from 300 is a MUCH closer number and that was over a much much longer length of time over America who managed about 40 in a very small amount of time.

So again, very little of it went on in England and details can be very hard to confirm on many of the women burnt anyway. Scotland was far far worse in fact, and is not England. America was far far worse.

psocrates @ Oct 11th 2007 8:06AM

and that post proves Charles's point

DownwardMonkey @ Oct 11th 2007 9:31AM

What?

The 30+ salem numbers can be confirmed (with many more happening that never had a record made), the 300 English numbers CAN'T be and they happened over a much longer length of time.

Americas hanging of witches was far far worse than the events in England. England isn't the UK, England is in the UK. England isn't europe, it's in europe. England isn't Scotland and it isn't Ireland.

So I'm sorry but I stand by my point, America was far far worse than England. I over simplified though, the rest of europe was far worse, horrific even but when I said most of it happened in America I simply meant over England as I maybe wrongly assumed I was talking to another American. I should have expected copy and pasted wiki quotes from people you've never heard from and work you've never read.

Bruce Everiss @ Oct 11th 2007 9:56AM

I have written this up on my blog: http://www.bruceongames.com/2007/10/11/the-church-of-england/

The Church of England is a business that is in terminal decline. People prefer other brands of superstition and now the government has mass media it no longer needs the church to keep the populace under control.

So when Sony used the interior of Manchester Cathedral in their game Resistance: Fall of Man you would have thought that the Church of England would be happy. For once the inside of one of their buildings would be seen by a large audience........etc............