Microsoft's Greenberg slams Sony's failed promises
Speaking to Destructoid, Aaron Greenberg, Director of Product Management for Xbox 360 and Xbox Live, added fuel to the red-hot fanboy fire when discussing PS3's upcoming lineup for 2008. Greenberg's statement is certainly going to inspire some truly extraordinary comments from PS3 and Xbox 360 fans alike. While he is a Microsoft spokesperson, we wonder: do his complaints have merit? Read on:"I know a lot of folks enjoy watching the console wars and we would never underestimate our competition. But answer to your question specifically, didn't Sony promise all of this last year including Home as well? We have been fighting Sony's promises from the day we entered the market and if you remember at that time it was all about PS2 being an online cybercity with partner announcements from the likes of RealNetworks and AOL. Then three years ago at E3 they showed what PS3 games would supposedly look like with the Killzone 2 video, that we are now learning will ship four years later. That means that we will have shipped Gears of War and Gears of War 2 before they can even get Killzone out the door," he said. "Think back to GDC 2007 when Sony promised to leap ahead in online with the Sony Home unveil. Here we are two years later and multiple delays for a product that appears to have little to no buzz. Where are the achievements? The friends list integration across all games? Where is the long-promised video store? Where are all the other products using and networking with their CELL chip? How come Blu-ray did not result in better games? What happened with Sixaxis and rumble? Where is the complete 1080p game library we were promised? If Blu-ray as they said would be such a catalyst to PS3 console sales, then why have PS3 sales over the past couple months not seen any lift since the format victory?"
Certainly, being a Playstation devotee has been frustrating. The system has been plagued by a slow start, and a number of key delays. Home and in-game XMB continue to be promises that have failed to materialize. This is a "ten year life cycle" on Sony's part -- but should that mean we should wait so long for the good stuff?
[Via GameDaily]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
shortyvs @ May 9th 2008 1:14PM
I'm a firm believer in releasing a game when it's done, not when the higher ups want you to. (i.e. the Blizzard Method) But I have to agree that "Home" is just a debacle right now. All these pushed back releases dates seem to be there just to keep the customer saying, "Oh it's only a month away. I'm so excited!". Yet we've been doing that for years now it seems. Honestly, I am not paying attention to anymore release dates or beta news ever. I'll believe it when I play it. I'm a release date atheist.
NineT9 @ May 9th 2008 1:52PM
I'm somewhat the same way, to me, there is only 1 thing that matters:
The end result.
If Home comes out in a year, and is completly mind blowing, then hell ya, im glad it took this long
Think about it... all the delays for various stuff, in the end, if it is the best it can be, we all will forget about it, for example:
Grand Theft Auto 4. It was delayed 6 months... now ask yourself, would you rather have it 6 months ago with bugs, less features, or now?
Trust me, when Home is launched and its successful, we will all forget about the delay, and if we DO remember how long it took, we will be glad they took the amount of time to polish it to how it is now
Roto13 @ May 9th 2008 2:07PM
I definitely prefer the current, bug-free GTA IV. ;p
buzzbean @ May 9th 2008 2:07PM
Delaying a product for quality is one thing, making a promise like "Home is going to revolutionize gaming," to create buzz and then not deliver is tantamount to vapor-ware. Especially for the other cell products, I remember the original promotion of cell, (before we knew what the PS3 would look like) and it was going to talk to a cell chip in your tv, hand held, computer, etc. Each component was going to exponentially increase the processing power. I love the PS3 and Sony products but this guys comments are right on the money.
Oh... and Microsoft sucks! j/k
DeathSyphon @ May 9th 2008 3:34PM
Yes Sony is slacking, they need to put whoever they need as many as they need and get it done. However exclusive PS3 games that got jacked from Microsoft in order to maximize revenue contributed to the loss of quality because developers had to dumb it for them. And lets not forget that Microsoft was paying huge dollars to bribe the entertainment industry to push their insufficient HD monstrosity. I stood in line for 36 hours to on launch day to get my PS3 and would do it again before I contribute to giving Microsoft a monopoly over the gaming industry, with sync in cars, vista, x-box. Once they control the market exclusively they can sell us crap because there will be no ability to compete. Sony cares about innovation and it's consistently proven to be worth waiting for, Microsoft throws money at situations and look what it's done for them. HD what?
Dennis Rosecrans @ May 9th 2008 3:31PM
Yes Sony is slacking, they need to put whoever they need, as many as they need, and get it done. However we all remember the exclusive PS3 games that got jacked by Microsoft which contributed to the loss of quality because developers had to dumb it for them. And lets not forget that Microsoft was paying huge dollars to bribe the entertainment industry to push their insufficient HD monstrosity. I stood in line for 36 hours to on launch day to get my PS3 and would do it again before I contribute to giving Microsoft a monopoly over the gaming industry, with Sync in cars, Vista, X-box. Once they control the market exclusively they can sell us anything because there will be no ability to compete. Sony cares about innovation and it's consistently proven to be worth waiting for, Microsoft throws money at situations and look what it's done for them. HD what?
hey alex @ May 10th 2008 11:02PM
There's a funadamental difference between Sony and Microsoft.
Sony announces games way way in advance. Some major games or functions they mentioned a year or two ago, are still pending or coming out next year.
Microsoft tends to announce what's coming out within the year, and tends to keep mum or barely show what's coming out beyond a year.
What do we know that is coming from Sony in 2009? What do we know is coming from Microsoft in 2009? From Sony, I know a whole lot more. I'm still not even entirely sure what's coming from Microsoft in 2008, beyond maybe 3 titles.
Lars @ May 12th 2008 2:26PM
Something like Home, I'd rather they release it early and keep upgrading it over time. But yeah, regular games HAVE to be finished when released. And I feel the same as you do, shorty, because I was excited about Home and now I'm just ignoring anything having to do with it. It'll come out when it comes out... enough of the anticipation.
Regarding the article, Greenberg does have some valid points but he also has a wave of bull in there too. I know some games haven't had integrated voice-chat or made good use of the friends list. But some have, which leads me to believe that part of the blame falls on the game developers.
At any-rate, the only reason I've found for wanting in-game xmb so far is so that I can change my voice-chat options on the fly. Messaging could be handy occasionally, when trying to hook up with friends in a game that does not cater well to it (ie EoJ).
JAH75157 @ May 9th 2008 1:15PM
I know i'm going to be flamed for saying this, but Sony needs to step up it's game. The ps3 has been plauged by delays, i've been a sony fanboy for a long time, but these delays and broken promises have left me feeling disheartened.
And yes i know that better products > delays, but there's been many delays. I just hope that Sony steps up it's game, as well as the developers. This year is looking pretty good as far as the line up but wasn't killzone 2 supposed to be a launch title / near launch title? now it's pushed back to 2009.
dblakenz @ May 9th 2008 11:31PM
Agreed, mostly, Home is taking way to long, but when it does finally launch it will be a new experince and one that im looking forward to. Sony has droped the ball on a few exclusives (GTA!) But Im a believer, while the delays have been annyoing (MGS4 anyone......) there for a reason. I believe we will all have a much better experance because of it.
Yes MS keep pumping out your exclusive shooters on limited disk space (GOW 1 + GOW2 = about approx 16 gigs of game) and support HD-DVD, oh wait..... :)
Now think of it this way MGS4 will be the 1st game to use the duel layer 50gig disks! Do the math, 8 gigs vs 50 gigs now let it sink in and it'll hit you....... now! Thats a hell of a lot more work for developers to do, but how much more game are you getting, a hell of alot more! Just think of how huge and awesom GTA is, but that fits on a 8 gig disk! Im betting other PS3 exclusives such as killzone 2 (I never heard it was going to be a lauch title btw MS), Final fantasy, GT5, ROFM2 etc + other future big unannounced exclusive's (the guys behind ICO, Shaddow of the Collosis project...!) will make use of the 50 gig disks. The PS3 exclusive games are really what being a PS3 owner is all about, we have some really great exclusive games already, ROFM, Uncharted , Motorstorm, Warhwak + some really good PSN games to name a few.
Yes it is taking longer, but blu-ray means the games are gonna be huge, but will mean we gotta wait longer for the developers to make all that content. Gotta take the bad with the good.
drdre74 @ May 9th 2008 1:15PM
Dude is right. Mostly all the reasons i bought my PS3 a year ago is because of the stuff that has still not come out yet. Uncharted and Heavenly sword were two of my main reasons and I love them both. But Home is a Urban Myth and is never going to come out to the public. Just release it as is and do the patch updates. I just want to have it. it's been long enough and its sad that Gears 1 and 2 will be out before Killzone. Thats just sad.
ManaKnight @ May 10th 2008 11:34AM
Actually, he failed to mention Resistance, where the first came out around the same time as Gears and the 2nd will be out around the same time as Gears 2.
He doesn't mention how Kameo was suppose to be a launch GC game and ended being a launch 360 game. Also, MS hyped BC and it never came out on the original Xbox. Crimson Skies was delayed 9 months. MS does the same crap too and is hiding it.
Eggy @ May 9th 2008 1:17PM
I only care about games and I've only bought a PS3 last Christmas so I'm pretty happy. For early adaptors it's probably alot more frustrating.
Anyway the MS dude should focus more on their own problems instead of whining how this or that feature is not there yet on a competitors system. It's so childish.
Eggy @ May 9th 2008 1:18PM
adopter that is haha
doug @ May 9th 2008 2:36PM
One of Microsoft's problems, in addition to hardware issues, is a shady competitor that throws out sham information about its product so people will consider buying it over a 360. Microsoft has a right to defend itself against the false promises Sony blathers on and on and on and on about. By the time Home is released we'll all be in rest homes.
never$$hort @ May 9th 2008 3:36PM
Don't be jealous of our superior system doug... Just save up your $$$ and buy a PS3.
;)
Popfrogs @ May 9th 2008 5:20PM
Doug = douchey troll. Glance at his comment history.
John S @ May 9th 2008 1:19PM
Hate to say it but I think he's right, for the most part.
Jerses @ May 9th 2008 2:25PM
Agree. This guy is saying what a smart 360fanboy would say about the ps3, its really a true problem. But then... if we start with the problems of the 360 we will end with RROD. What sony needs to do is just keep this updates secret so we fanboys dont just wait to long... the need to tell us one month after realease date.
never$$hort @ May 9th 2008 3:50PM
Yeah he is right to a certain degree, but the problems that Sony has are common with any gaming system.
Another thing I notice is that M$ talks far more trash about Sony then the other way around. I hardly ever hear Sony talking about M$'s hardware failure rates or their multiple SKU's adding features that should have been there from the start, HDMI, HDD, ect.
M$ seriously needs to get off their high horse and quit trying to downplay their competition that is rapidly catching up and will soon take over. Comments like these only make them look SCARED and WORRIED and there seems to be a lot of statements like this being made like this lately.
Someone is getting nervous and it isn't Sony...
dsr7997 @ May 9th 2008 6:05PM
"Another thing I notice is that M$ talks far more trash about Sony then the other way around."
Are you f**cking serious?
never$$hort @ May 9th 2008 8:11PM
Yeah dead serious... Show me sources that prove otherwise and I'll concede that statement...
Oh, and another thing... Game delays are not uncommon, however, electronics with failure rates of 33% or higher on any device, game system or not, is nearly unheard of. So i think this dude seriously needs to quit while he's ahead and STFU. M$ is definitely scared about something but I can't quite put my finger on it, oh wait... ;)
dsr7997 @ May 12th 2008 2:14AM
"Yeah dead serious... Show me sources that prove otherwise and I'll concede that statement..."
Here you go however; I am sure you will come back with "Yeah well, everything Sony said about M$ is true".
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20051213-5759.html
http://www.psu.com/Microsoft-hasnt-reached-beyond-FPS-fans,-says-Sony--a0002978-p0.php
http://xbox.joystiq.com/2006/06/28/kaz-hirai-microsoft-is-just-a-copycat/
http://kotaku.com/387930/david-reeves-utters-snide-things-about-microsoft
Fiddlesworth @ May 9th 2008 1:20PM
Wasn't one of the big things Microsoft were pushing as an Xbox 360 advantage before launch customisation? Tacky looking faceplates isn't my idea of customisation, PS3's well ahead in that respect, XMB themes (professional and user-made), Unreal Tournament III mods, LittleBigPlanet etc etc.
Didn't they even say you'd be able to SELL mods? How many years now and still you can't.
Elwood JD @ May 9th 2008 2:58PM
Just wanted to clarify, when Microsoft talked about customization, they didn't mean those silly faceplates. They were saying you were being given the option of which SKU to buy, and how much you wanted to spend on upgrading with peripherals over time (add HDD, wireless, HD-DVD, etc) as you decide that you need them. While your prefer for this method or the uber-expensive but all inclusive Sony method for console distribution is a matter of choice, you can't say they did not give the consumer customization.
As for mods, your deluded if you ever thought M$ would allow open mods on Live. They purposefully have a closed system (which they tout as protecting the consumer and the service) and have never said they would allow open mods (developers could apply for and have specific mods approved for the marketplace, but user-generated content is generally disallowed).
adolson @ May 9th 2008 1:21PM
GDC2007 + 2 years later != May 2008... Guy can't count.
Sauvage @ May 9th 2008 3:43PM
My thoughts exactly! If the dude can't even do basic arithmetic should we really to any of this other points?
Fact is Microsoft have squandered a 16 month lead. The PS3 is now only 6 million units behind the Xbox 360, and is still out selling the Xbox 360 world wide on a monthly basis, even with all the price cuts Microsoft have thrown out there. So it shows that a higher price point and more reliable machine can outsell a badly made, unreliable machine that is cheaper and has been out for 16 months.
The Xbox 360 peaked to early and that is why Microsoft will bring out another console in the hope that they can make gamers upgrade to the next version just like PCs need upgrading every couple of years, and forget about the mess they made of their first next gen console.
Draicus @ May 9th 2008 1:22PM
Obviously Sony still has a lot to prove, but hearing things like this coming from a Microsoft employee screams, "Don't look at our failures as a gaming platform or our complete lack of AAA titles in 2008! Look at Sony's promises that feel through and completely forget that we only have two good games coming out all year!"
JayD-1K @ May 9th 2008 7:54PM
they only problem Sony has is, that they are trying to do to much at one time! Sony is trying make an online service to rival XBL in 2yrs! it took MS 5yrs to get to where they are!
do i agree with him on the fact that Sony needs to bring a couple of things to the table...and fast but, MS hasn't been up front with all their short commings and the fact (wether you like it or not) MS does throw money at all their problems to try to hide them!
"IF" Sony delivers the goods this year....MS will have alot of things to worry about...especialy if they bring another new SKU to market and god forbid if they put a Blu-ray drive in it! that would meen not only was Sony right but, they are still the most forward thinking company when it comes to hardware in the gaming world.
people are already sarted to see the benifits the PS3 brings to the table out the box!
these are just my thoughts but, it does kinda of sound like he is trying to throw some salt on Sony's game. with the recent up shift in sales in all.
Fiddlesworth @ May 9th 2008 1:23PM
Seems like a reaction to 16 months headstart of 360 sales overtaken by PS3 in Europe, too.
North America's the only major region left where they're ahead.
RPMd70 @ May 10th 2008 9:50AM
That's because everything in between the west and east coast... is... well... you know. Let's just say, "genetically inferior" hah.
RedBeard1701 @ May 9th 2008 1:23PM
Maybe if they had taken the "It'll be done when it's done and not before" attitude there would be no RROD. I don't care how much software they have, as a piece of hardware, the 360 is a joke.
That said, I hope Home comes out soon and is a kick to XBL's nuts.
RangerPrimeX @ May 9th 2008 1:26PM
Sony does seem to make a ton of promises that either fade away or take forever to arrive. I have both systems and the new PSN Store is better and closer to LIVE but overall PSN lacks the polish and vital functions of LIVE. Why no in game XMB for so long when that one feature would go along way to making PS3 owners happy. Why must I install everything and be able not to do anything during the install? If they put resources into that polish first before Home, PS3 owners would be much happier. Stuff like this is why I got GTA on my 360 instead. Another sad example is the horrible roll out of the MGO Beta which some people still have not been able to get necessary updates so they can run and let's not speak of the multiple necessary logins from Konami.
Polish and games is what Sony should focus on.
PS.
Don't go off about PSN is free. Doesn't matter as that makes it an excuse for why it is not as good as LIVE. Make it as good or better than LIVE that should be Sony's goal.
JAH75157 @ May 9th 2008 1:31PM
i for one would be overjoyed for in game xmb, they could push home back to 2010 and i wouldn't care if they did that.
it seems like army of 2 allowed somewhat limited access to it, if i remember right. if the game can do it why can't the console creators.
Martez @ May 9th 2008 1:32PM
Why can't we vote for both? Yes, Sony needs to keep their game up, but this dude is also a Microsoft shill.
adolson @ May 9th 2008 2:29PM
Yup, totally agree.
flawed poll is flawed
HAAS599 @ May 9th 2008 1:36PM
he has some good points we are all aware of, but when he needs to realize the games would be better on Blu-ray if his xbox console didnt dumb-down all the multi-platformers
Jnas @ May 9th 2008 1:39PM
Hate to say it but he's right...
pavs @ May 9th 2008 1:41PM
Hmm, speaking of promises. Halo 3 was announced before the 360 was shown to the public. By the time it actually came out, 360 was already two years old. I also remember them saying something about XLive being free, but that died pretty fast.
And, unlike Killzone 2, there was no reason to wait so long to release Halo 3, except for marketing purposes, because the game did nothing to advance the current generation, both graphically and gameplay wise it was a simple add on and tiny improvement over Halo 2. Killzone 2, however, might redefine the way we view war games, the same way Saving Private Ryan redefine world war II war movies. The game has a year before it is released, and it already looks miles ahead of anyother game out or coming out this year (including crysis and far cry 2).
When mentioning that there will be two gears of war games out for 360 by the end of the year, may be he should also mention that there will be two Resistance and two Motorstorm games out on PS3.
I guess to close this off, its reasonable to conclude that when getting an Xbox 360, you get everything that is listed on the side of its packaging box. While with the PS3, you get that and a whole lot of stuff that you will have to look forward to, giving you a reason not to kill yourself.
ray @ May 9th 2008 3:35PM
i don't see why you guys are so excited over killzone...it does not seem like it's gonna get anyone to buy a console at all! it's not that impressive really..most of you are just gettin into the hype! and no none of the ps3 or 360's games are gonna look better than crysis...deal with it! i do own both systems and the 360 online capabilities including friends integration is just way ahead of the ps3! i do love the blu ray for the ps3 but it's not even like omg i gotta get a ps3 for blu ray! most people get movies on regular dvd still or services like comcasts on demand. resistance 1 AND 2 can't even compete with the gears of war series by the way...they were not that good! motorstorm?? what a joke..that's crap! it's the ps3s own fault that there aren't more games out for it..no one WANTS to have to code for it an put in all that extra work! no matter what single game(killzone) comes out in the future the ps3 just will not have as many users as the 360 which sucks cause i do like certain games on the ps3. just don't be delusional everyone...it's not gonna happen...360 won rrod or not
TP4MYBUNGHOLE @ May 9th 2008 2:24PM
pavs, you da man!
I was feeling bad for Sony and how Greenberg made a lot of good points. But you brought me back to thinking that all the good stuff is coming. I always knew that the PS3 "IS" a much better console than the 360, I sometimes just thinking the features of the PS3 are slow to come. I still have a feeling that in the 2.40 firmware update, we'll not get in-game XMB access, even though we were promised we would.
But what about the video service though? Sony has been jabbering about it for a couple of years now but no hope that it will see the light of day?!?
darko @ May 9th 2008 3:35PM
i was always a sony fanboy until i realized the same stuff he's talking about so i picked up a 360 and love it. i will still buy a ps3 once all these promises are kept and all these games and features are here. by then hopefully the console will be cheaper to offset the charge for their online service(if you think it will always be free you are retarded, that isnt sonys way) by the way halo sucks, it's all the same it just got prettier. i didnt even waste my money on it instead got the superior cod4. the only thing ps3 has on the 360 now is blu-ray and they were brilliant for that, i only wish they wouldnt have jacked up the prices on the stand alones once hddvd dies, but then again it is sonys way.
Daniel @ May 9th 2008 4:29PM
@ray
Crysis and the cry engine is being ported to ps3 ;)
So yes us PS3 owners will have something as good as crysis.
Oh yeah and GDC 2007 + 2 years = 2009. What has the x360 got after GeOW2? GeOW3 perhaps ... well not really lets not go into the whole GeOW3 exclusivity thing... which by the way their isn't because MS hasn't signed a deal for it.
Blu-ray is a catylst for ps3 sales and has been for about 3 months now. As for sixaxis and rumble... shock horror... dual shock 3.
As that americans say... thats guys a real douche bag!
MS make hardware... as I have always said MS can't make software right.
Oh and whats happened to the microsoft hand held in which MS took half the team who worked on the 360 to develop it (leaving the other half to fix any problem with the 360's design.. which they didn't do.)
Kenneth H. @ May 9th 2008 1:50PM
Wish there was an option for both because that dude IS a "Microsoft Shill" and Sony DOES need to step their game up.Obviously their is a lot still missing that shoulda BEEN out...most notably in-game XMB and HOME (having to get out of a game to respond to a mssg. is annoying as hell). But honestly I've got more games than I can play and really where else can I play Warhawk and GTA IV and Uncharted, etc, etc. I've picked my console of choice and I'm ridin wit it till the wheels fall off.
Aaron @ May 9th 2008 1:51PM
Greenberg is a Microsoft shill. he has no idea what he is talking about. Glad I am selling my 360.
deaftly @ May 9th 2008 2:10PM
Reading your past comments, I highly doubt you've ever had a 360.
Mr.ESC @ May 9th 2008 2:13PM
OWNED.
Aaron @ May 9th 2008 2:25PM
Yes I do have a 360 bought it in June 2006. I am on 360 #4 and I owned about 20 games since I had my 360 but traded most of them in. Only have Crackdown and Gears of War left.
Doesnt matter what my past comments say. I just happen to like the PS3 better than the 360.
wisconsinista @ May 9th 2008 1:54PM
He's correct and if you read most of my previous posts I echo the same sentiments. We should be thankful however that our hardware doesn't pull a mission impossible self destruct on us and plays the next generation dvd's in addition to the best games. He better soak up this feeling and rant while he can. By fall the current momentum of the PS3 will be unstoppable.
kevin @ May 9th 2008 1:54PM
yeah hes totally right sony step it up omg ive been backing u up and getting made fun of but all we can think about about making fun of xbox is the red ring i mean when it works its awesome and all but seriously im tired of all this bull cuz all the games i have i can have them on a 360 all i want is home thats y i bought the ps3 and look nothing this is bull