Sony promises better moderation system for LBP
by Andrew Yoon 
{ Nov 10th 2008 at 9:49AM }
Many of the levels in question involve copyrighted content. For example, levels based on Nintendo's Super Mario Bros. series may be wiped out. Even levels based on Sony's own God of War have been removed. While we understand Sony's need to ensure proper moderation against copyrighted material (they don't want to be sued, of course), this is the wrong way to approach it.
Thankfully, things are looking to change. "We want to ensure that creators' levels are only permanently removed if they warrant it. In most innocent cases a simple tweak to the level may be required and that's what we're working on communicating," said Sony. Simply telling users what to change and giving them an opportunity to fix their mistakes is a far better alternative to unwarranted deletion. We'd be devastated too if one of our levels just disappeared.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Gervin @ Nov 10th 2008 9:59AM
The whole level sharing process as a whole needs to be revamped.
I understand the artful concept of providing levels as parts of a "planet". But there are SOOOO many levels now, that navigating through the planet pages is quite unwieldy. There should be an option for a boring list presented in spreadsheet fashion, allowing you to easily filter, cross-reference, and find the levels you want (as opposed to the 99.9% of crap out there).
Peter @ Nov 10th 2008 10:40AM
Definitely.
I love the whole user-friendly approach, but there's just too much to not also have a list available.
Jerses @ Nov 10th 2008 11:03AM
Im with you. Im trying to get my level viewed by people but its on the page 45!!! i only have 15 views and 1 hearted ( me lol). And all the front page levels even if they are dumb as hell have like 6k of viewers. I have seen great levels with great designs and really worth playing but they are in page 30 and up.
This game need a patch real fast.
Also im tired of those crappy levels they need to add a filter for kids, LBP aproved levels, crappy levels and trophie levels. I know this game is for kids but come one some levels are just retarded.
Gervin @ Nov 10th 2008 12:49PM
Wow... page 45. See the whole page thing is stupid. Each time I play I have to cycle through TONS of pages (slow to load BTW) in order to get to the newer content. UHG.
Kodros @ Nov 10th 2008 1:28PM
I could be wrong on this, but I don't think that the newest stuff is always put in the last page. I believe some spots are randomized. I say this because when I checked a week ago, I saw a few levels that only a few people have played on page 1.
Sancho @ Nov 10th 2008 10:00AM
i received the GoW sticker pack... so if i decide to make a GoW level wouldn't that be deleted as well ? why give us the sticker pack for something they are prohibiting? i know the GoW level was made during the beta but whats the difference really ? on the other hand my published level is unique and everyone should check it out and hopefully heart it... PSN ID= Sancho45
Lars @ Nov 10th 2008 1:50PM
Good question... That's a stumper.
I can understand levels themed on copyrighted material being deleted... people should have known they'd get axed when they put them up. But what they really should delete is all those freakin' lame trophy levels. Page 1 is full of that crap.
Also, give us an option to view "most popular" and "new levels" separately. New levels pop up, 5 people play them, then they're off in oblivion somewhere. Also the search feature sucks. It finds so many alternate spellings and such that I have to search through pages of crap to find what I'm looking for. I was trying to find the Little Big Phantasy level and just typing Phantasy gave a ton of unrelated results, further refining it to "Little Big Phantasy" gave ton more crap to dig through!
By the way, check out my Siege level (and heart it please!). PSNID: Lars_Bloodbeard
Eric E @ Nov 10th 2008 10:04AM
a god of war one i played during beta was the absolute best i've seen so far. I real homage and well made piece.
I was wondering why i couldn't find it now. If they have official Kratos costumes, what's wrong w/ levels unless they were planning on doing it and he/she did it better.
Krycek @ Nov 10th 2008 10:13AM
wouldn't those levels be protected under parody law? that's how things like the scary movie franchise and all of those other parody movies do it without being worried about a lawsuit
Andy @ Nov 10th 2008 10:22AM
same in the artworld.
appropriation, as long as they dont try to pass it off as 'the real deal' and its basically paying homage to something, then it isnt considered reproduction or under any copywriting laws.
James @ Nov 10th 2008 10:57AM
There is one thing that I thought could absolutely ruin this game for me and it would be over moderation and so far it's been done.
I was planning a homage to my favorite TV series ever Arrested Development by going through a couple of my favorite levels but now I'm not sure I'll even try to make them.
I can understand them being a bit anal about the Mario stuff when there are Mario pictures and stuff but God of War is a god damn Sony IP.. I mean COME ON!
Gervin @ Nov 10th 2008 1:50PM
No offense to those building "homage" levels. But where is the originality. If I see one more lame ass level paying homage to an old game, I'll scream.
James @ Nov 10th 2008 6:59PM
Yeah I tend to agree but mine was more so a level themed on the show. But yeah Mario remakes are lame, and so is having 15 shitty "TROPHIES!!!!!" levels on the first 5 pages.
Vannoy @ Nov 10th 2008 5:44PM
I love Arrested Development as much as everyone else, but please don't waste your time making a LittleBigPlanet level based on the series, it would just end up being stupid.
James @ Nov 10th 2008 8:11PM
Well in what light? I'd only really make references and stuff here and there.. and I think the boss would be a cornballer shooting cornballs at you.
Of course it would be stupid, but it might end up being funny.
The Aggie CEO @ Nov 10th 2008 11:03AM
yea thats what I would think.........
but hey......if Sony doesnt wanna go toe4toe with people for that then why in the FUCK release a game like this???
They KNEW this would happen........hell they could have at LEAST told us in BOLD letters that creating said content would result in deletion......and by BOLD letters I mean somewhere OTHER than the EULA agreement........
koehler83 @ Nov 10th 2008 10:58AM
Well copyright issues of some creations aside, I see no use for "Dickland". Clearly there are larger moderation issues that should be prioritized.
Darren Tilley @ Nov 10th 2008 11:05AM
The whole thing about creators not having a backup is not true. They still have the offline creation on their own hard drive, which they can repurpose and resubmit.
It's only the levels created during the Beta that won't have any backup, since the savegames aren't compatible.
Jerses @ Nov 10th 2008 12:06PM
If i was a moderator for LBP this will be my rules
1) just 1 per page level "get 8 trophies in a go"
2) delete all crappy games from the front page and move them to the end (page 59 and growing).
3) change the copyright names for example; Mario to Maria, Sonic to Zonic, God of war to good of war,etc,etc.
4) Make 3 other user planets one for crap levels, other planet for "made by a kid" alias "non playable" and the last planet be named unfinished levels (do not enter)
5) Levels that have more than 1k or rating move them to the end of the list so the new levels will have viewers point.
6) Delete levels with tons of dialogue...just for fun.
Mr. Joe @ Nov 10th 2008 11:22AM
not to be the paranoid one, but i feel like something else is the deeper reason for this. like andy and krycek said, there are loopholes that allow you to recreate in a similar fashion without getting into trouble. they're not advertising the game as "look, we have mario!" my buddy painted a whole series of mario stuff and sold a bunch of it. i asked him if it was legal and he said it was because of it's "paying homage" and isn't reproduction.
also, giving out a kratos costume defeats their whole argument.
tyboogie @ Nov 10th 2008 11:38AM
This is why I tried to my level called parallax! as exciting and as unoffensive as possible. When you guys get a chance, check it out, or if you cant find it add me, psn: nyahbingi
flynn110 @ Nov 10th 2008 1:50PM
this is really sad for this game. first of all, navigating the some 50+ pages of levels with seemingly no order gives me migraines. i simply don't have the time or patience.
now this whole moderation thing. i still play as samus in Unreal tournament III as well as mario, link etc. that game has been modded to hell and with no repercussions...how is this any different? the theme of this game was create anything you want! they might think of changing it to 'create what is within the guidelines, copyright law, ip rights etc.' if someone wants to make a penis level - great, go for it. if i don't like it i won't play it. but don't start telling me what is acceptable and what is not.
from what i heard the god of war level was taken down for violence no ip infringement. seriously...this is fucking sad.
E @ Nov 10th 2008 12:37PM
::hmph:: There's always a catch to things, isn't there? Although we live in the real world where things like trademarks and copyrights exist, that really does suck that people'll have to "limit" their creativity. The reaction to "problematic" levels says, "Be as creative as you want... just as long as you don't do fan service to my stuff without paying for it."
rot in a box @ Nov 10th 2008 12:40PM
if your level gets deleted you can unplug your internet and then edit your level then take out whatever it was that you think was offensive and remove it. then just rename your lvl and your good
Ralph Jones @ Nov 10th 2008 1:05PM
I just hate trying to play online and suddenly having a laggy session. I like the tools and the editor and whatnot. That game is buckets of fun, but some more patching is needed.
Gambit07 @ Nov 10th 2008 1:28PM
I've been messing with the editor for a while now, I'm sorta creating something that is basically for show not play, I'm not sure if people would like it, but if anyone wants to join me in my editor and check it out, just let me know. PSN Gambit07.
Zim @ Nov 10th 2008 1:50PM
Awwww so this means no more 9/11 levels or other controversial topics ?
Sony had a good idea but its far too restrictive for what you can build and publish.
Jonathan @ Nov 10th 2008 2:03PM
My problem isn't with the moderation/deletion of copyright infringing levels (be serious with yourself, you aren't creative if you are just copying what other games have already done), but with the moderation/deletion of levels that are considered offensive or obscene. Where is the line drawn? If my level deals with Heaven and Hell, will that level get deleted because it may be offensive to atheists or non-Christians? Will my level get deleted because of some minor thing that is offensive to one or two people? I don't want to have to put days into a level only to have it deleted because some easily offended person was upset about some tiny thing.
tjlenz @ Nov 10th 2008 3:02PM
What most of you don't seem to understand is that MM and Sony are hosting the servers and the content. They have the right to do whatever they want with the levels. Other games such as Unreal or TF2 allow users to make mods and host them on your own. Most of the content on here wouldn't be infringing on copyright, but it is something the MM and Sony don't want on THEIR servers. They want to promote NEW and ORIGINAL content. I don't think it is that much to ask. I agree with everyone that this was not the way to handle it, but lets see how they correct the problem before passing judgement.
alexi @ Nov 10th 2008 3:20PM
i think finding community levels should be like vb forums.. where you go to the "New levels" section and it shows the latest. then if you beat it and leave a response or whatever, it'll bump that level to the front page.
Game_playa @ Nov 10th 2008 3:28PM
I hope
Michael @ Nov 10th 2008 7:00PM
This is nonsense.
MM actions are that of communists controlling what the newspapers say, not of copyright enforcement. I had one cut out of a face, and eveything else was completely original.
I really hope the authors realize what draconian measures MM are going to put them through because someone in your company doesn't have a clue with the term fair use. MM and Sony should be completely ashamed of this bizzare enforcement of someones ideas. Authors and users should really stop using your product if you are going to behave so poorly as to seemingly randomly take levels offline, delete objects, and remove hours of work without a word to them or without an explaination -much less a justification that can hold water. In my case, you have none. Not one thing in my level would have violated copyright.
Basically anything MM felt didn't feel like LBP they deleted. MM is hiding behind this excuse - but the only recourse you should have is to post back the levels and handle it on a one by one case - not a mass deletion.
They have really pissed off me and others, and really deserve some sort of severe monetary punishment.
Jimiisama @ Nov 10th 2008 3:51PM
Can't they just absolve all responsibility for the levels you create in LBP? That way they won't be sued... Oh, wait, Sony owns everything you make in a video game! Yeah, I guess they can't sue you for something that isn't technically your property.
kentuckyfried @ Nov 10th 2008 7:00PM
Wow...Sony's really taking the aggressive road on this one. which is good in a sense, since other games like Pixeljunk Monsters have seen the mass proliferation of less-than-appropriate content for younger audiences such as penis monsters and the like.
I just hope they don't go overboard. There should be a warning before the content gets wiped out completely (should it just be a copyright issue).
ibs10 @ Nov 10th 2008 4:13PM
To bad they already deleted my level that i worked on for hours on end for no reason at that! i have no clue whatso ever why it was deleted it was a level i made up off the top of my head no copyright or naughty things at all! uggh
Corey B @ Nov 10th 2008 10:33PM
I wrote a letter to LBP about intellectual property, I think it's worth a read: http://www.theweeklyblend.com/LBP/2008/11/letter-to-sony-and-media-molecule-in.html
JaseH @ Nov 10th 2008 6:14PM
Mario levels being deleted because of copyright?
I don't think a PARODY has anything to do with copyright.
______________________
JaseH.
Marius @ Nov 10th 2008 6:22PM
Did the SAW level got deleted?
dc_ @ Nov 10th 2008 7:34PM
I think they should be careful about over moderation. Maybe it won't happen, but acts like this can cause an online backlash by the gamers. One recent example is the PC game SPORE - many sites such as metacritic had to moderate the level of backlash that the game got by commenting reviewers. I believe the gamers revolt, as we might call it, definetely hurt the reputation of that game at least to some extent. In that case the issue had to do with an unfair EULA.
Secondly, one commenter pointed out rightfully that Sony owns everything that we create to publish. Sure, they can do whatever they want - i think they could probably even commercially sell our levels without compensation, but its obvious that they shouldnt. It is also obvious that they shouldnt over moderate.
Third, good point to the person who basically pointed out that the Kratos costume defeats the purpose. Why moderate a God of War level for infringement yet allow the MAIN CHARACTER (for pete's sake) to bear resemblance to the same moderated game? This seems schitzophrenic so to speak and send a confusing message to me. I can't tell where the line is drawn.
Finally, I've never made a "homage" level and dont plan to, but some of you guys are really borderline hateful towars those who do. What better way to get truly proficient at level design with no experience than to start with something you know and remodel it in order to learn and practice? It could lead to one day creating something amazing. Its a good way to have direction while learning, and a good way to have something to create without having a great idea beforehand.
Oh and SORT FEATURES are desperately needed. I can't stand the dumbed-down wiggly cloth planet with 59 pages. I bet it would take 4 hours to wiggle my way through all those descriptions and get to the last page. The guy's whose idea was to bump recently visited and approved levels to the top is a good sort feature. Then new levels which are well designed will tend to float longer than bad levels, and the better levels will populate the top more often while giving most people a fair shot at getting people to try their creations.
P.S. does the moderation include those musical levels? I've seen some great reconstructions of popular music on there. Please, no one tell the RIAA.
dc_ @ Nov 10th 2008 7:44PM
Also, there may be more than meets the eye to the moderation, especially in regards to mario and nintendo content. There is a sort of meta-war going on in the console industry. I'm conjecturing but it may be a smart strategic chess move for someone like Nintendo to simply THREATEN to sue, which would cause Sony to divert money and resources and ultimately hurt profits of their game. Moderation of content could pre-empt this kind of action before it starts.
If that threat from someone like nintendo ended up panning out, it could sink Sony's attempt at creating a new mascot and could ultimately help nintendo stay above the playstation in the marketplace. (sackboy is intended to be Sony's mario-like iconic character, and a system seller). Sony could simply be employing a "take and hold" posture on the battlefield. ie - They have made inroads into the market with this new flagship game, now they need to consolidate their position and anticipate threats. Business is war.
Gonzo @ Nov 11th 2008 4:59PM
And how do they know that some psychotic fanboy wont be upset enough to hack their servers and really f*&^ things up.
locoidontknow @ Nov 12th 2008 2:25PM
I think they should have looked into this legally. I dont think that anybody could sue them, and the game is just asking for you to do this. Check my level out " The sticker Collector " before it gets modded to get some great stickers. psn=locoidontknow